Comments on: On Warranties https://creativecommons.org/2003/04/30/onwarranties/ Join us in building a more vibrant and usable global commons! Mon, 07 Dec 2015 09:33:01 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.6.1 By: Dan Bricklin https://creativecommons.org/2003/04/30/onwarranties/#comment-957 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 https://blog.creativecommons.org/2003/04/30/onwarranties/#comment-957 While we’re on the subject, and with so many lawyers reading this, are the quotes I used in the Pamphleteers and Web Sites essay I mention above fair use? After much thought and looking, I think it is, but I don’t have access to case law… In which cases is it and is it not? It is just such worry that would keep me from making any warranties. I decided to take a risk on my web site without knowing for sure, since the damages would be so low, and it was for non-commercial academic use for something I thought was important to say. I wouldn’t warrant that if someone wanted to re-use it in their book. I don’t want to have to put carve outs all over my website about “I warrant this but not that”.

]]>
By: Dan Bricklin https://creativecommons.org/2003/04/30/onwarranties/#comment-958 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 https://blog.creativecommons.org/2003/04/30/onwarranties/#comment-958 I think that the material many bloggers refer to is easy for a professional creating an academic or commercial work to track down and obtain rights for or determine fair use — certainly much easier than for the blogger. Since fair use in non-commercial situations is different than commercial, this is really set to confuse the normal blogger who may think they are OK, and with the common Attribution license isn’t restricting this to non-commercial. Larry Lessig’s story about the Simpsons was intended to scare people and it did. The need we licensees have from bloggers is (especially those that are difficult to track down, are anonymous, etc.) to know that their part is copyable. (Of course, on the other hand, what good is a warranty from an anonymous person?) For the researchers in the future, reading blogs (of New Hampshire primary?) like we read the pamphlets of Revolutionary times, we need to be able to publish the original parts. (See my Pampleteers and Web Sites essay.) The fact many bloggers like to paste in quotes (sometimes too long) from publications is not a problem for licensees who can deal with those quote easily. Maybe we need a way to indicate what is believed to be original (and therefore easy to use with a CC license, providing warranty or not) and what comes from others. (Of course, not everybody knows what’s copyrightable, like compilations…)

Using the works of others is a brick by brick process. It would be nice to have something that did it all for the licensee, but maybe the parts should be broken out (grant, warranty of reasonable inquiry) to be more practical for the wary casual writer. I wouldn’t want the fear of one mistake tainting a work make an important (in hindsight) author neglect to at least let their part of the work be copied without needing to negotiate with them or their heirs.

]]>
By: Ben F https://creativecommons.org/2003/04/30/onwarranties/#comment-959 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 https://blog.creativecommons.org/2003/04/30/onwarranties/#comment-959 Would it really conflict with cc’s goals to offer a license, or a set of licenses, that are analogous to a quitclaim deed?

]]>
By: Glenn Otis Brown https://creativecommons.org/2003/04/30/onwarranties/#comment-960 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 https://blog.creativecommons.org/2003/04/30/onwarranties/#comment-960 One of the main goals of the Creative Commons licensing project is to remove as much legal doubt as possible from the re-use of creative materials. Another goal is to minimize the amount of rights-clearing that must go on in the chain of creativity. Having the original licensor promise to clear these rights — within reasonable limits — furthers these goals. Letting the original licensor pass that risk on to all licensees undermines these goals; it creates a situation in which every licensee must in fact do his or her own due diligence for every single transaction. What good is the license if that’s the case? “Feel free to use my work provided you can prove that I’m not passing liability on to you” — that seems unfair, and tremendously inefficient.

So some sort of warranty is crucial. If we can come up with a way to soften our current warranty without passing on too much risk to licensees, then I’d be open to doing so. (I have trouble imagining how this would be done, since, again, someone must bear the risk.) But the idea of removing any type of warranty whatsoever isn’t compatible with our goals.

]]>
By: Glenn Otis Brown https://creativecommons.org/2003/04/30/onwarranties/#comment-961 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 https://blog.creativecommons.org/2003/04/30/onwarranties/#comment-961 Well, the last thing I want is to hurt the “some rights reserved” movement, especially over a policy that, as these posts show, has become a source of concern to many of you. The timing of this discussion couldn’t be better, in that we’re about launch a new “Discuss” space on this site dedicated to communty-based development of proposed changes like these, new license options, etc. So, what I’ve argued above notwithstanding, I’d like to at least put this warranty issue on the table, both in our internal discussions here at Creative Commons and in our forthcoming discussion space.

]]>
By: Karl-Friedrich Lenz https://creativecommons.org/2003/04/30/onwarranties/#comment-962 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 https://blog.creativecommons.org/2003/04/30/onwarranties/#comment-962 Glenn Otis Owen: “One of the main goals of the Creative Commons licensing project is to remove as much legal doubt as possible from the re-use of creative materials. Another goal is to minimize the amount of rights-clearing that must go on in the chain of creativity. Having the original licensor promise to clear these rights — within reasonable limits — furthers these goals. Letting the original licensor pass that risk on to all licensees undermines these goals; it creates a situation in which every licensee must in fact do his or her own due diligence for every single transaction. What good is the license if that’s the case? “Feel free to use my work provided you can prove that I’m not passing liability on to you” — that seems unfair, and tremendously inefficient.

“What good is the license?” What a surprising question.

Without the license, you can’t use the work. It’s as simple as that.

“Passing the risk on to the licensee, that seems unfair”?

No.

The licensee gets to use the work for free. Asking for any kind of guarantee on top of that seems to be somewhat cheeky. I, as someone who donates his works to the “Creative Commons”, have to assume uncalculable liability to an unknown number of anonymous licensees, to compensate them for their friendly willingness to use my work?

You must be joking. I’ll be damned if I’m going to pay people even one dime for the privilege of having them use my works.

Glenn Otis Owen: “So some sort of warranty is crucial. If we can come up with a way to soften our current warranty without passing on too much risk to licensees, then I’d be open to doing so. (I have trouble imagining how this would be done, since, again, someone must bear the risk.) But the idea of removing any type of warranty whatsoever isn’t compatible with our goals.”

Your goals seem to be not compatible with mine as an author. The solution to that is easy. I have removed all reference to your licenses from all of my works, replacing them with (for the time being) “all rights reserved”.

]]>
By: Trevor Turk https://creativecommons.org/2003/04/30/onwarranties/#comment-963 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 https://blog.creativecommons.org/2003/04/30/onwarranties/#comment-963 Maybe I’m not a lawyer and don’t quite understand what is going on here, but it seems that if the CC license says: “I’m putting this stuff under this license, so you are free to use it” while not also saying: “I’m pretty sure I haven’t stolen this stuff from anybody else” it wouldn’t be much good. Even saying “I’m pretty sure” seems like a concession to me. Without a clause saying that you are free to use this stuff BECAUSE I don’t mind AND BECAUSE it is my work, what good would it be? Without is, the license would just be saying “I’m not going to care if you take this work, but who knows where I got it from, so somebody else might care – but you’ll have to check that out yourself.” That wouldn’t be as helpful for the person wanting to use the work, and it wouldn’t go along with the CC mission. I think that somebody putting stuff up under the license should have the responsibility to say to others: “this is mine, and you can use is according to these guidelines.”

]]>
By: Wendy Seltzer https://creativecommons.org/2003/04/30/onwarranties/#comment-964 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 https://blog.creativecommons.org/2003/04/30/onwarranties/#comment-964 The core problem is that copyright infringement is a strict liability offense. If you copy a copyrighted work, without authorization or a defense, you’re liable for infringement, regardless of whether you knew you were copying or unauthorized. “Innocent infringers” might face a smaller damages penalty (as low as $200 per infringement, versus willful infringement, where damages can rise to $150,000), but they’re still on the hook.

The existing set of CC licenses does one kind of burden- and risk-allocation — if you see one of these licenses, you know you’re free to use the work on those terms and can hold the licensor accountable if the license’s assertions are negligent. But that’s not the right choice for every licensor.

I agree it would be valuable to have licenses that made the opposite choice too — a mere quitclaim that asserted only that the immediate licensor would not assert rights against one who followed his license terms. The no-warranty license would pass along the rights, and only those rights, that the licensor had to confer, leaving to each potential licensee the decision whether the work was “safe” for re-use. That license gives less assurance than the current CC set, but it removes one potential plaintiff from suit, so in many cases it’s better than no license at all.

]]>
By: toph https://creativecommons.org/2003/04/30/onwarranties/#comment-965 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 https://blog.creativecommons.org/2003/04/30/onwarranties/#comment-965 My text is very hyper, and my recent photographs are clearly mine, having stopped linking to images as of the beginning of the year. But blog template puts all past material under CC license I chose. Hmm. Doesn’t look like it’s working if it isn’t obvious to reader as I might think it was that I routinely quote extensively. Shouldn’t it be the responsibility of the licensee to figure out this difference, something “via” someone? Is there any particular worry if the licensee preserves the reference of quoted material as I posted it? Is use of pseudonym ok? Many of these issues are brought out above, but mention them again, as there are nuances of difference in choice of words.

]]>
By: Dan Bricklin https://creativecommons.org/2003/04/30/onwarranties/#comment-966 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 https://blog.creativecommons.org/2003/04/30/onwarranties/#comment-966 Glenn, that’s great news. I think the “some rights reserved” movement is very important. Extending it to cover even more cases is something the future will thank us for. I’m sure there are a wide variety of cases we should start looking at for easing the burden on re-use. The “all or nothing” approach of the initial licenses is a great start, and will handle lots of traditional material. With the proliferation of new types of media creation, from blogs to postings from cell phone cameras, we’ll need to think even broader and into the whole gathering process of expressive material.

]]>