From: Mark Hazen Subject: re copyright My apologies to Columbia House on offering a copy of the Bujoc article to Jamie. I agree that the better method is to get hold of Columbia House. I was only following examples that I saw in the archives of people offering past articles and have to admit that I had not thought to far ahead about how I would have transmitted them. [Ed. Note- Yes, you know and I know that it's Columbia GAMES. I don't write the articles, I just post them. Mark, I think, just had a Freudian slip. Now, let's not spend any more time correcting him, we all know what he means. -Eric] I think there is a point here though about availability of articles from the EH and Chybisa modules. I know that there was a long discussion about the two versions of Chybisa and the herblore article. Perhaps CH needs to put out a reprint of the articles, and/or form a reprint service on reasonable paper (maybe unbound and three hole punched). I assume that they have the documents in electronic form on Macs or something. In fact as I ramble on here you could see a volume called Tribes of Harn!!!! Is this something that we could/should lobby for? mark From: andyr@comm.mot.com (UK478 Andy Ransom) Subject: Re: Harn stuff > From: phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Paul Lehman) > > I am also not completely comfortable with the notion of short, dumb, and > brutish peasants whose outlook is limited to their liege. This makes for > good rpg if one's PCs are not peasants and makes things much simpler, and > thus easier, to GM, but I don't really imagine real medieval or fantasy > peasants would act that way (and especially think that way). Not necessarily brutish, but certainly dumb! This is mainly because of the environment in which they have been raised. They will have been given no formal education, and are unlikely to have great expectations or ambitions. The only contact most of them will have outside their own community is on market days, and even then the majority of the people at the market will have come from about a 30 mile radius. The only peasant types who travelled a lot are tinkers, bodgers etc. who where itinerants travelling from village to village and on the whole considered untrustworthy for this reason. That's not to say that you won't get the odd peasant (a PC?) who does have a naturally high intelligence and ambitions to do more than live in the same village all his life, but these would be the exception rather than the rule, and would likely be considered trouble makers and rabble rousers by the local Lord. You have to remember that in anything resembling a 'real medieval' society the concept of human rights didn't exist. By this I don't mean they were not enforced, I mean they really did not exist. The whole idea that peasants had any right to a decent living was alien to the culture. Therefore their expectations were very low, and just as an added extra to stop the trouble makers, the church told everybody to be good in this life, or you would be damned to eternal Hell in the next. This was for many a very real threat. So those who weren't dumb may have pretended to be, just to escape the wrath of the church. > From: lee@sq.com > > in some countries, peasants were forbidden dyed clothing of certain colours, > especially purple, which was reseved for nobility. Errr, I'm certainly not aware of this being the case in England. However in medieval Europe some colours were near impossible to produce with commonly occurring dyes, in particular Black and Purple cloth dyes were incredible expensive, there is no way a peasant would be able to afford such cloth even with a life time of saving! This is why Purple became a colour used by both Church and Royalty, in was basically a status symbol to be able to afford a Purple robe or cloak. ------------------------- Andy Ransom andyr@baseng.comm.mot.com ------------------------- From: Magnus Lycka Subject: Re: More on tribal names I found the paper on Solori and Bujok dialects interresting. I think there as an pronounciation article in one of the HLs, but I haven't read it. My first and most important comment is that the document needs much more examples to be useful to amateurs like me. In other words, aenwa/aedwa is not enough! A list of ten or thirty words per language or so, would greatly improve the use of this paper. (The more the merrier, of course.) Another thing that is needed then is naturally a definition of how the sounds are written. (I suggest that we write in Latin letters, even if lakise or runic would be more apprpriate.) Well, the only thing I could wish for after that is a sound-file I guess :-) JML -- Name .............: Magnus Lycka, MSc, Design Engineer | All opinions Office Address ...: Saab Ericsson Space AB | expressed here S-405 15 GOTEBORG,SWEDEN | are my own. Office Phone .....: int+46 31 354229 | Fax ..............: int+46 31 359520 | Email ............: Magnus_Lycka@space.combitech.se | From: Haavard Steinsbekk Subject: Re: Names for tribespeople > > From: pcrxs@valinor.giss.nasa.gov (R.B. Schmunk) > Subject: RE: Names for tribespeople > > And you'd be surprised at the variety. While working on an EHindex > last spring, I discovered that there are are very few Harnic first > (or given) names which are used much. And if you throw out the > dynastic names used by kings of several of the kingdoms, it gets > even worse. As best I recall, the only Harnic equivalents of > "Tom, Dick and Harry" that were Tomys, Mikkel and their variant > spellings. > Just a short not on the names thread. One of the things I noticed when I started using Harn was the lack of concistency in naming. This goes for both people and places. It was difficult to see any clear relationship between the different naming practices. As there is some time since I looked at my Harn-stuff (and everything are back in Norway anyway) I may be wrong. But it seemed to strike at the time, specially because the rest are so well put together. Comments anyone? Havard Steinsbekk (For the time being studying in Belgium, but still using the old account) From: THE_DA-DA_DUMMY Subject: Re: Temple Tongues Just one minor correction to Mr. Schmunk's posting. There is no such language as Azeri. That is the name of the language family. Harnlore one does make the statement, but in the lythia language article there is none listed. Which old Azeri tounge to use in the church of Save-Knor is thus open to debate. Or have I misunderstood the article? I make little use of the church of Save-Knor, so have not bothered to examine the temple language issue since I noticed the discrepancy. -Duncan From: THE_DA-DA_DUMMY Subject: Re: Harn sources There are also many entions in the various multi-verse articles of the Blessed Realms also being called Amman, the uttermost west, etc. All are direct references to Tolkien. -Duncan From: THE_DA-DA_DUMMY Subject: Re: Arabian Nights... Ikaras can be viewed as evil. Evil and honerable perhaps, or maybe just very smart, and limits his actions to a plane he has more control over. He also wants to dominate his underlings, not let them run projects of thier own, particularly ones that might bring trouble down on HIS head. Imortal beings do tend to see the long term picture... -Duncan From: Greg Hara Subject: Re: Names for tribespeople Along the same lines as names, what about complexions? What is the dominant "complexion" of Harn. If Harn mirrors the UK, then Orbaal is Scottish, western Harn (Rethem, Trardic Republic, etc) are Irish, and eastern Harn (Kaldor, Chybisa, etc) are British. These are all "fair complexions", so under character generation, where do "medium and dark complexion" people migrate from? Greg From: Mark Hazen Subject: Peleahn Spells As a contribution to list's library of spells Fenton the Fabulous would like to submit the following low level spells for consideration by the worthy masters of the Shek Pvar. As these were originally MSWord files the formatting is not strictly to code but Fenton hopes that this will not distract from their worth. Fenton also hopes that the Masters will not think that his effects are too flashy or ostentatious. Within the limits of his Firework show he is really quite retiring and modest. [oh and while I am at it am I ever embarrased about my posting calling Columbia games, Columbia House (head hidden in the sand), it even took me three readings of the editors comments to catch his drift, it has got to be a bad hair friday] ------------------------------------ Convocation: Peleahn Level: II Name: Fenton's Fiery Sling Description: This spell enchants a sling so that whatever is thrown from it will be engulfed in flame on release. The resulting fire missile will do 1D6 + SI damage on impact. The sling will enflame MS: SI/2, CS: SI missiles before being exhausted. In the base spell the sling is consumed when the spell ends. The missiles need to have some flamable component. +51% - the sling will not be consumed +86% - the missile is only partially consumed and so does half normal damage and may impale in addition to the heat damage. Fatigue: (15 - SI)*2.0 Time: (15 - SI)*2 seconds Range: Touch Duration: MS: SI min CS: SI*2 min (or until exhausted) ------------------------ Convocation: Peleahn Level: II Name: Fenton's Umbrella of Smoke Description: This spell needs a constant supply of smoke, such as from a pipe or fire. The spell weaves a conical umbrella of smoke over the casters head which will shed rain and follow the caster. MS - sheds medium to light rain and mist CS - sheds heavy to medium rain +76% Caster can reorient the umbrella so that it will protect from driving rain, or increase in size to act as a tent. +91% Caster can form an umbrella and anchor it to a focus type object. Fatigue: (15 - SI)*2.0 Time: (15 - SI)*6 secs Range: Touch Duration: MS: SI/4 hours CS: SI/2 hours (m/l) SI/4 (h) ------------------------ Convocation: Peleahn Level: I Name: Fenton's Pipe Description: Spell which effects the amount of smoke generated by a target fire. Smoke production is increased or decreased by decreasing or increasing the efficiency of the fuel combustion. The basic spell will reduce/increase the amount of smoke by 50/75% with MS/CS and requires suitable fuel. The spell does not effect the amount of fuel consumed only how well it is consumed. +51% Spell is not dispelled by the addition of new fuel. +86% Caster can use the spell to prepare fuel rather than effect a fire that has already been started, but must be able to touch the fuel. +91% Caster can effect fires or fuel from SI yards away. Fatigue: (15 - SI)*1.0*cu. ft. of fuel Time: (15 - SI)*10 secs Range: 1 yard Duration: SI*30min/SI hours (or until fuel consumed) ----------------------------- Convocation: Peleahn Level: I Name: Fenton's Space Heater Description: Spell which effects the amount of heat and light generated by a target fire. Heat generation is increased or decreased by decreasing or increasing the efficiency of the fuel combustion, while light generation varies in inverse proportion. The basic spell will reduce/increase the amount of heat by 50/75% with MS/CS and requires suitable fuel. The spell does not effect the amount of fuel consumed only how well it is converted to either of the energy forms. +51% Spell is not dispelled by the addition of new fuel. +76% Caster can use the spell to prepare fuel rather than effect a fire that has already been started, but must be able to touch the fuel. +81% Caster can effect fires or fuel from SI yards away. +96% Caster is able to increase or decrease the rate of consumption by varying the amount of heat and light generated independently. Thus by reducing the amount of light generated for a constant heat output a fire will last longer for the same amount of fuel. Fatigue: (15 - SI)*1.0*cu. ft. of fuel Time: (15 - SI)*10 secs Range: 1 yard Duration: SI*30min/SI hours (or until fuel consumed) ---------------------------- Convocation: Peleahn Level: I Name: Fenton's Filter of Magic Description: Spell establishes a tunable wall of elemental fire that will block a particular spell or family of spells from effecting the space within the wall. The spell being blocked must be familiar to the caster, and the area must be outlined with a combustible material that is consumed as the spell is activated. Use of divination type spells like FEEL can be used to determine the type of spell being blocked but will result in less than 100% protection. The basic spell will only protect against Peleahn spells. Wall blocks both incoming and outgoing spells. Incoming spells of higher level are reduced in their effect depending upon distance and difference in level (DM discretion) +50% Caster can protect against neutral and grey spells. +60% Caster can protect against spells of other convocations; (and Divine as in Runequest spells to a limited extent.) +80% Caster can cast multiple filters at the same time. +90% Caster can make the filter one way so that spells can be cast from within the wall, or without. Fatigue: (15 - SI)*1.0*sq m. of area protected Time: (15 - SI)*10 secs Range: 1 yard Duration: SI*30min/SI hours *Note that this last spell should probably be multi-level but Fenton had to create it under difficult circumstances to sheild dreams and has not had time to consider beefing it up* From: Magnus Lycka Subject: Re: Arabian Nights... > > From: Harry Butler > Subject: Re: Arabian Nights... > > Magnus Lycka writes: > > I have this idea about putting my bold adventurers through a scenario that > > takes place in a foreign country where they are culturally lost and don't > > understand the language. I'd like this to happen in a setting big city is > > that is lot like Baghdad in Arabian Nights. I don't have the Lythia map > > available, so I don't remeber the proper names, but I think you understand > > what I mean if I say that I'd like to place it on the Lythian "Red Sea" > > coast, somewhere close to "Saudi Arabia". I have a few question based on this: > > Have anyone developed this region (or some other Lythian region away from the > > NW part)? Having looked at the Lythia map, I realized that I really meant Mokora, in the Gulf of Mafan, but perhaps a city in the empire of Dalkesh would be better. (It's easier to claim that a boat from Cherafir went there than to Mokora.) On the other side, it could be a city that isn't on the Lythia map, for instance further west along the Chogoro coast. Chogoro is said to be a poorly united region consisting of several diverse states, settled by mafani traders, so it could fit. Then again, Hacherdad (mentioned below) is another alternative. > > > Do you have any ideas about culture and religion there? Do they have the same > > world view as Harn? Do they have other gods than the 10 we know? Do they > > worship spirits or demigods? > > I'm treating Dalkesh as something of a combination of fading Ptolemaic Egypt > and medieval Muslim Egypt, and Hacherdad as more of the Caliphate of Baghdad. > I haven't really fully developed anything on the worldview; I would expect > them to worship some other gods, or at least the same gods in a different > way, but then I'm attempting to revise the religious system into a true > polytheism (with Larani/Peoni a growing quasi-monotheistic church in the > west. I belive there's some information in the Lythia module on churches > in the area [chief temple of Morgath or Naveh--can't remember which--is in > Dalkesh, I think]. The religious centre of Naveh is in MANQUIDEH, in eastern Dalkesh. Naveh is generally fairly popular in Dalkesh, especially among parts of the ruling elite. I must admit that I have problems seeing Naveh as a major church in any society. He must certainly be worshipped in a different way than on Harn. Has anyone developed or found sources for development of a culture with a god like Naveh being held in high esteem? I think he is stranger than Agrik and Morgath in many ways (although far more disciplined than the other two). To be honest I haven't even figured out how people in Tharda & Rethem act, feel and think. Explanations or references to good books/movies etc would be appreciated. I know very little on the old Persian culture. As far as I understood, the monoteistic worship of Zarathustra (sp?) was important during some time, but I really remeber very few religious references in Arabian Nights (It's been some years...). I suppose it's best if we can stick to the ten well-known gods, but there should be possibilities to introduce demons and demigods, worship of various spirits or vastly different views of the well-known religions. For instance there are Ilvirans on Harn who believe that Ilvir created man. There could be other "strange" concepts here... > > One thing you might want to keep in mind is culture-specific knowledge > (herbs are a good example) and assess penalties for operating in a *very* > foreign environment (no deserts on Harn). I'm working with my co-GM on > some homebrewed guidelines for this, but I believe there are some in the > MERP rules (and thus probably in Rolemaster; haven't checked), including > region-specific herb lists; if people are interested, I'd be willing to > post them (or at least a draft of them) soon. Thanks Harry! I'd be interrested in your (and anybody elses) material, both on herbs etc and development of the region in general. > > Hope this helps. > Harry Butler > BTW, I suppose that most of you, like me, compares with Europe, Asia and Africa when trying to figure out what different parts of Lythia is like. The thing that bothers me most in this comparision is that India is missing. Thailand and Malaysia comes just east of the Arab/Persian part of the world!? This makes me slightly confused... JML -- Name .............: Magnus Lycka, MSc, Design Engineer | All opinions Office Address ...: Saab Ericsson Space AB | expressed here S-405 15 GOTEBORG,SWEDEN | are my own. Office Phone .....: int+46 31 354229 | Fax ..............: int+46 31 359520 | Email ............: Magnus_Lycka@space.combitech.se | From: THE_DA-DA_DUMMY Subject: neither brutish NOR dumb. From: HAMP::DBLAKE "THE_DA-DA_DUMMY" 29-OCT-1993 13:16:40.64 To: DBLAKE CC: Subj: >> I am also not completely comfortable with the notion of short, dumb, and >> brutish peasants whose outlook is limited to their liege. This makes for >> good rpg if one's PCs are not peasants and makes things much simpler, and >> thus easier, to GM, but I don't really imagine real medieval or fantasy >> peasants would act that way (and especially think that way). >Not necessarily brutish, but certainly dumb! >This is mainly because of the environment in which they have been raised. >They will have been given no formal education, and are unlikely to have great >expectations or ambitions. The comparison between modern thirdworld nations and a medieval nation is precarious at best, but I would like to address this idea in terms of real world experience. I have traveled in parts of the far western sections of Nepal, places were westerners (and indeed any stranger at all) are very few and far between. The people that I met were as close to serfs or peasants as are likely to exist today outside of hereditary bonded laborers in india and pakistan. They were completely illeterate, subsistance level farmers, never having traveled more than a few days walk away from where they were born. In NO way would I consider these peole dumb. Smart, lively people with intresting and very rich oral traditions, very quick to make sense of and enjoy my taperecorder, without any understanding of it's underlying mechanism, without ever having seen one. These were not Nepalse tourist trap villages I was in. Many people had no idea about the country beyond thier own valley. And were VERY inteligent. If you want to think of the feudal lord system as imposing a level of stupidity on people, fine. But isolation and insularity alone won't do it. >You have to remember that in anything resembling a 'real medieval' society >the concept of human rights didn't exist. By this I don't mean they were not >enforced, I mean they really did not exist. The whole idea that peasants had >any right to a decent living was alien to the culture. This is not strictly true. The feudal system was based on the concepts of rights and responsibilities. While the practicle aplication of such may not be very evident, the theory and body of tradition concerning rights was quite extensive. >------------------------- > Andy Ransom >andyr@baseng.comm.mot.com >------------------------- -Duncan From: Harry Butler Subject: Re: Names for tribespeople I've been getting names from a variety of sources. Since the Jarin seem to me to be approximately Celts, I use Welsh and/or Irish names for them, and Irish, Scots, Cornish, and Breton names for people from tribes of Jarin stock. For Lythian tribes, I tend to use either Teutonic names (especially from groups like the Vandals) or names from Tolkien (and the ICE MERP stuff) for the aboriginals (Druedain? I can't quite recall). For regular Harnic people I use both names from the Harn books (and I too find it odd/annoying that there are very few repeated names) and names from a wonderful reference book, the _Onomasticon Anglo-Saxonicum_, which lists (almost) every named person from Anglo-Saxon England and thus provides (when used randomly) a reasonably large number of common names. I then modify them so that they are smoother-sounding and look less obviously Anglo-Saxon. Obviously the Ivinians get Norse names, and since the Shorkyni, Trierzi, and Quarph are all related to the Ivinians, I use names from other Germanic groups for them (e.g., I use Gothic names for the Trierzi). For Emelrene I decided to go with Frankish and Breton names, and I use another onomastic book, _Gaulish Personal Names_, for Emela tribesmen. I'm considering using Turkish names for the Reksyni, but no one has gone there yet, so I haven't had to decide. I simply lift Lapp names for the Yarili, and Finnish names for the Alts. Harry Butler From: mdabbott@aol.com Subject: Re: RE: Names for tribespeople I use a bit of shareware for the Mac call Travesty. It reads a body of text and compiles statistics on the incidence of letter combinations. I keep lists of names in several languages to use as source files. This produces good names which retain a particular flavor. Mark From: mak@ticipa.works.ti.com (Michael Kilgore) Subject: RE: Arabian Nights... >From: Mark Hazen > >There are aspects of nature that are not represented in the >Pantheon. [...] Of course this is based out of mankind inventing >gods so that they can somehow divert natural disasters and not based in >the Gods being real. [...] > >So how about it is there anyone else who feels that there is room for some >other Gods to horn in on the action. I'm a bit behind in my reading, so I'm sure I am missing some essential background. But it seems, from the summary of the Libram of the Pantheon in HarnView, that there needn't necessarily be a compelling reason for a full set of gods to be available. In fact, I find that having something like the present mix adds to the distinctive feel of that part of the world. The Libram claims that the original gods arose from first principles (indeed, *were* first principals); so we can expect them to comprise some kind of comprehensive set of powers, everything needed to make it all go. This is similar to what Greg Stafford has been doing with Glorantha for several years. However in his universe (to simplify outrageously), the original principles continued to devolve fairly systematically into other gods, so that the possibility of having systematic pantheons continued for some time. On the other hand, in Kelestia the Lesser Gods seemed to be created, at least at the beginning, frequently just to serve some particular purpose of a greater god; so systematic generation of gods did not seem to play a larger role in the development of the universe. The major gods playing some part in Harn seem to have come across the place more or less haphazardly, and some (such as Siem and his representatives) may not feel obliged to stay around after a while. So I have some difficulty viewing the 10 gods in Harn as forming a coherent pantheon in the sense that they contribute collectively (whether they like it or not) to upholding the world; Zelazny's description of Amber's chief family seems more like it (a combination gossip society and lethal obstacle course -- a complete mangling of the quote). Perhaps Leiber's distinction between the gods in Lankhmar vs. the gods *of* Lankhmar might serve here: the "pantheon" is present in Harn but not mythologically an essential part of it. That's rather pedantic. To get back to your question, I find that having loose gangs of gods, rather than a full-service organization, puts a completely different light on how people deal with the gods in a(n unmodified) Harn campaign. Not all the gods feel that it is their job to do anything in particular; and some things are available from no one, so people are thrown back on their own resources. For example, there may well be a sea god somewhere; but sea services are not available comfortably in-house, meaning that a mortal must negotiate as an outsider with a foreign god or not have anyone to deal with at all. Just as the typical Harn campaign is magic-low, one also has a god-low campaign: there may be lots of gods, but they are not omni-present or omni-competent. I think your phrase "horn in on the action" captures the point exactly. If another god shows up in Harn, it may well be more because the god is an opportunist who decided to get some of the action, rather than because a functional void cried out mythologically to be filled and the Universe responded. -- Michael Kilgore Texas Instruments, Inc. (214) 917-2219 mak@works.ti.com From: Jamieson Norrish Subject: re copyright > From: Mark Hazen > > I think there is a point here though about availability of articles > from the EH and Chybisa modules. I know that there was a long > discussion about the two versions of Chybisa and the herblore > article. Perhaps CH needs to put out a reprint of the articles, > and/or form a reprint service on reasonable paper (maybe unbound > and three hole punched). I assume that they have the documents in > electronic form on Macs or something. In fact as I ramble on here > you could see a volume called Tribes of Harn!!!! > > Is this something that we could/should lobby for? I don't know if we could, but I certainly would like to. It's rather hard collecting *any* Harnworld products here in New Zealand, let alone those which have been out of print for years. My local gamestore owner has basically said that if I want products from Columbia Games, I'll have to order them direct - the distributors simply do not supply them, except on rare occasions. Jamie From: phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Paul Lehman) Subject: Re: Arabian Nights... >I've begun developing most of the areas around the Venarian Sea, though I must >admit I haven't made all that much progress on the eastern end beyond the >beginnings of some settlements in Hacherdad, Karejia, and Dalkesh. ... >if people are interested, I'd be willing to >post them (or at least a draft of them) soon. People are (or at least me). If it is rather long or has important formatting you might also consider putting it in the archive. ---------- phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu In Gods we trust. All others pay cash. From: phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Paul Lehman) Subject: Re: re copyright >I think there is a point here though about availability of articles from >the EH and Chybisa modules. I know that there was a long discussion about >the two versions of Chybisa and the herblore article. Perhaps CH needs to >put out a reprint of the articles, and/or form a reprint service on >reasonable paper (maybe unbound and three hole punched). I assume that >they have the documents in electronic form on Macs or something. HA! (don't worry, Mark, the sarcasm is not directed at you). >In fact, as I ramble on here you could see a volume called Tribes of Harn!!!! > >Is this something that we could/should lobby for? Personally, I'd rather see the mainland be developed. I think that Columbia has also rather officially said that they are done with Harn the island. Just a vague recollection though. ---------- phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu In Gods we trust. All others pay cash. From: phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Paul Lehman) Subject: Re: Harn sources >Summary: Harn has taken 5 or 6 of its gods from Tekumel (the >identification of Peoni with Avanthe being somewhat iffy), and >a lot of words from Tolkien. > >What borrowings have you noticed? Thanks for posting this stuff. I have not read Tolkien or EotPT so this is all new to me. Almost the only stuff I notice is the names of various NPCs. ;-) ---------- phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu In Gods we trust. All others pay cash. From: phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Paul Lehman) Subject: religion >So how about it is there anyone else who feels that there is room for some >other Gods to horn in on the action. Or have people developed demi-gods to >cover such areas of influence. I am interested since the last two adventures >have involved traveling by ship. Demigods who are either servants of the big 10 or localized entities (restricted in space [and time?]) are the way to go. I buy the party line that the 10 in Gods of Harn appear differently in different cultures and planes, although how exactly that works out in practice I'm not sure. I also like creatures such as Noron who have god-like powers, but who are quite separate from the 10 (aka the current deity junta). This raises the question, of course, of what plane Noron's worshippers, if he ever had any, would go when they die, etc. >Leading off from this, how do people like the Curse of Hlen? My group are >working their way toward Hlen at this moment so I have some time to work >out details. For example, just what does what Panaga has done at Hlen >got to do with his long term plans???? This is something that I too did not fully understand. Seems he would have picked a better target, and not one so isolated and easy to develope by a GM/module writer. Seems to me to be another case of dumbing down the behavior of NPCs. >Can a demon not be evil? Does >Robin believe in the Myth Adventures type of definition of demon or what. >I had my characters extremely worried about the evil emanating from the >boxs of (so-called) demon parts of Ikaras only to find out that Ikaras >is not so evil. So now the boxes must be the evil part - a tenuous explanation >at best. I even had the boxes of demon parts drive a Laranic Priest in >Tashal to the point of sacrificing children. Needless to say when caught the >church was very upset and has lost a lot of face with the local population. I like the nebulous definition of evil and the fact that Panaga is depicted as an independent individual within an Agrikan hierarchy. CoH makes it pretty clear that Panaga has flunkies and bosses and is operating within a power structure he wants to advance within or change entirely. What is unclear is where exactly he could go. Would he just move up a few more levels till he became Agrik's right hand demon? Could he actually supplant Agrik if sufficiently powerful? Could he go independent (theoretically anyway) or is he inextricably bound to Agrik? Seems to me that if you look at him in those terms, the essential evilness of Agrik loses some of it's meaning. I.e. it is no longer just some yes or no trait that is checked off on the NPC record. Anyway, I do like the idea of Laranian priest getting possessed and causing havoc. Just how did the church authorities deal with this and the priest? To everybody else: Fire/flame away! ---------- phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu In Gods we trust. All others pay cash. From: ianmc@sybase.com (Ian McCreery) Subject: Weapon Skills Hello All- I DID end up buying Harnmaster....very interesting. I enjoy the character generation system (although magic/sorcerors are almost too non-existent for my taste), but I have a question: For several of the occupations, rather than an SB listed, it lists "OML+SB" -- did I miss something? What does this mean? Several occupations list their weapon skills this way + I believe the Language skill levels are listed in a similar way : " 70+SB"...(?) Ian From: Mark Hazen Subject: RE: Arabian Nights... > >>From: Mark Hazen >> >>There are aspects of nature that are not represented in the >>Pantheon. [...] Of course this is based out of mankind inventing >>gods so that they can somehow divert natural disasters and not based in >>the Gods being real. [...] >> >>So how about it is there anyone else who feels that there is room for some >>other Gods to horn in on the action. >The major gods playing some part in Harn seem to have come across the place >more or less haphazardly, and some (such as Siem and his representatives) >may not feel obliged to stay around after a while. So I have some >difficulty viewing the 10 gods in Harn as forming a coherent pantheon in >the sense that they contribute collectively (whether they like it or not) >to upholding the world; Zelazny's description of Amber's chief family seems >more like it (a combination gossip society and lethal obstacle course -- a >complete mangling of the quote). Perhaps Leiber's distinction between the >gods in Lankhmar vs. the gods *of* Lankhmar might serve here: the >"pantheon" is present in Harn but not mythologically an essential part of >it. > >That's rather pedantic. To get back to your question, I find that having >loose gangs of gods, rather than a full-service organization, puts a >completely different light on how people deal with the gods in a(n >unmodified) Harn campaign. Not all the gods feel that it is their job to >do anything in particular; and some things are available from no one, so >people are thrown back on their own resources. For example, there may well >be a sea god somewhere; but sea services are not available comfortably >in-house, meaning that a mortal must negotiate as an outsider with a >foreign god or not have anyone to deal with at all. Just as the typical >Harn campaign is magic-low, one also has a god-low campaign: there may be >lots of gods, but they are not omni-present or omni-competent. > >I think your phrase "horn in on the action" captures the point exactly. If >another god shows up in Harn, it may well be more because the god is an >opportunist who decided to get some of the action, rather than because a >functional void cried out mythologically to be filled and the Universe >responded. >Michael Kilgore Texas Instruments, Inc. This is an interesting way of thinking about it. It would explain local Gods like Ilvir and the sudden appearance of Gods like Halea on the scene. Thus if I were to extend this idea of opportunism we could see a wide range of God/demi-God creatures that are unknown to Ketheira on other worlds that at some point or in some local area have manifested themselves. I have long thought that should adventurers travel to the far east they would find a different set of Gods that might or might not overlap. I also point out that Sarajin has a demi-god who looks after mariners - thus illustrating my point that a maritime nation is unlikely to spend alot of time on a God that does not provide the services that they require. Thus I am back to deciding who the seamans guild calls on for protection, and given the strength of their guild they must have some. Nature abhors a vacuum and so do power struggles, I could almost see a war on another plane with Gods fighting over who gets to pickup the seamans union votes. I have not gone far enough with this to make a proposal but I think that although it is possible for there not to be a full service pantheon it would not last long. At least not if the Gods need followers and if they do not then why do they work so hard at obtaining new ones (or do they?) One might postulate (as many authors have, see the Rose of the Prophet etc.) that as the numbers of believers varys so does the power of the God. If this is so the Gods would be falling all over themselves to snap up a group of people such as mariners. What a way to propagate the faith. This idea would also help tie in the strength of the tribal Gods (such as of the Taelda). I do not think that I would go as far as some that the human need for a God leads to its birth. I more like the idea of the Gods being there and building their strength, dying off and coming back again. (Could be a variation on Dallas). So you could see in the Wars of the Gods a God being defeated, and then painfully rebuilding its powerbase under another name. Or a senior demi-god salvaging some of the believers and rebuilding to take the place. Well this has gone on a bit long. My utilitarian reason for starting this thread was a need to explain who a seaman might worship since my group is venturing more and more at sea. mark Hazen From: Greg Hara Subject: Arabian Nights... >The religious centre of Naveh is in MANQUIDEH, in eastern Dalkesh. >Naveh is generally fairly popular in Dalkesh, especially among parts >of the ruling elite. I must admit that I have problems seeing Naveh >as a major church in any society. He must certainly be worshipped in >a different way than on Harn. Has anyone developed or found sources >for development of a culture with a god like Naveh being held in >high esteem? I think he is stranger than Agrik and Morgath in many >ways (although far more disciplined than the other two). I use Naveh to be akin to the Japanese Ninjas or the Indian Kali worshippers (a la Indy and the Temple of Doom). In a society ruled by politics, where assassination is an acceptable practice. Check out the Aztecs, Mayans, or Incas cultures. >To be honest I haven't even figured out how people in Tharda & >Rethem act, feel and think. Explanations or references to good >books/movies etc would be appreciated. Tharda is equivalent to Rome, I think. For Rethem, I use Sodom and Gomorrah. Greg From: pcrxs@valinor.giss.nasa.gov (R.B. Schmunk) Subject: Re: Temple Tongues THE_DA-DA_DUMMY writes: >Just one minor correction to Mr. Schmunk's posting. There is no such language >as >Azeri. That is the name of the language family. Harnlore one does make the >statement, but in the lythia language article there is none listed. Which >old Azeri tounge to use in the church of Save-Knor is thus open to debate. >Or have I misunderstood the article? I interpret Azeri as being a defunct language, somewhat like Latin has become. There are certain group(s) who may use it, and there are other languages descended from it, but it is not generally used by the populace. rbs -- R.B. Schmunk Email: pcrxs@valinor.giss.nasa.gov Smail: NASA/Goddard Institute, 2880 Broadway, New York, NY 10025 USA Vox: 212-678-5637 From: Mark Hazen Subject: Religon and Gods Well I had a reply to Paul all written up and lost it with a stroke of a key. So here is what i could salvage. These ideas back up the idea of a constant jockeying for position amongst the immortals. If Panaga can build a powerbase and avoid Agrik or other more powerful immortals long enough then perhaps he can grow into a God, and perhaps challenge. In the Staff of Fanon the citidel in the desert was built by a demi-God who was getting to big for his britches. If this can happen, how does it affect the Concordat. Does the concordat mean that when a Demi-God gets to powerful the Junta cracks down on him and destroys him? It is fairly clear to me that Sarajin horned in on the action in Ivinia only recently in Godly terms. I have the tendency to see the Gods as the personifications of elemental ideas - perhaps this is my problem. I cannot categorize the harnic Gods easily enough to know when a character or NPC would pray to which. Not that I want a check off, but Agrik is sort of chaotic, Naveh very lawful (in his own very strange and scarey way), and Morgoth just insane (so the scale is chaos to law, morgoth, agrik, naveh). There is space however on the good side of the house for a God that mercenaries can worship easily and not be Ivinian. Who is Sarajin currently trying to horn in on. There is a bit of background here that needs to be filled in. Just like my need for a Seamans God. In this constant struggle for power I just cannot see the Gods letting these types of groups wander about with no spiritual guidance. But most mercenaries would have trouble identifying with the Laranic idea of self-sacrificing combat, or the Agrikan idea of mutilation. Perhaps, there is a sect of Halea - probably with male priests that guides mercenaries, could do the same for Seaman. Or a sect of Siem for seaman since pilots are said to worship him, under another name. Mark From: phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Paul Lehman) Subject: Re: Names for tribespeople >From: mdabbott@aol.com >Subject: Re: RE: Names for tribespeople > >I use a bit of shareware for the Mac call Travesty. It reads a body of text >and compiles statistics on the incidence of letter combinations. I keep >lists of names in several languages to use as source files. This produces >good names which retain a particular flavor. > >Mark How about putting it in the archives at sunbane? (Or is it in all the usual, big archvies?) ---------- phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu In Gods we trust. All others pay cash. From: phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Paul Lehman) Subject: RE: Arabian Nights... >The major gods playing some part in Harn seem to have come across the place >more or less haphazardly, and some (such as Siem and his representatives) >may not feel obliged to stay around after a while. So I have some >difficulty viewing the 10 gods in Harn as forming a coherent pantheon in >the sense that they contribute collectively (whether they like it or not) >to upholding the world; Zelazny's description of Amber's chief family seems >more like it (a combination gossip society and lethal obstacle course -- a >complete mangling of the quote). Perhaps Leiber's distinction between the >gods in Lankhmar vs. the gods *of* Lankhmar might serve here: the >"pantheon" is present in Harn but not mythologically an essential part of >it. Good analogies. Wish I would have said this and the paragraphs that followed. >That's rather pedantic. Not really. How the gods work has a lot to do with how a campaign "feels" and how priests and other religion associated (N)PCs interact with the rest of the world. Getting a coherent "meta framework" is one of the most important aspects of a fantasy world, IMHO. It is also one of Harn's greatest advantages. ---------- phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu In Gods we trust. All others pay cash. From: Jamieson Norrish Subject: Re: More on tribal names > I found the paper on Solori and Bujok dialects interresting. I > think there as an pronounciation article in one of the HLs, but I > haven't read it. My first and most important comment is that the > document needs much more examples to be useful to amateurs like me. > In other words, aenwa/aedwa is not enough! A list of ten or thirty > words per language or so, would greatly improve the use of this > paper. (The more the merrier, of course.) Another thing that is > needed then is naturally a definition of how the sounds are > written. (I suggest that we write in Latin letters, even if lakise > or runic would be more apprpriate.) Well, I did point out that the paper was based almost entirely off only two names for each dialect, since two names are all that I had from the official articles. If anyone has any more, I would love to know about them, since it would enable the phonology to be made more complete. As for providing examples of names generated using the article, that is certainly easy enough to add, and I'll do so at some point. However, much of the point of the document was to enable the reader to make up words which fitted into the language - thus all the (CVC)C stuff... Jamie From: klaus@diku.dk Subject: Re: re copyright Mark Hazen writes: I think there is a point here though about availability of articles from the EH and Chybisa modules. I know that there was a long discussion about the two versions of Chybisa and the herblore article. Perhaps CH needs to put out a reprint of the articles, and/or form a reprint service on reasonable paper (maybe unbound and three hole punched). Please NOT three hole punched. Those useless wholes are uncomfortably close to the wholes that must be punched to place pages in a standard four ring binder. It is better to let people punch whatever wholes they need for their binders. Klaus O K From: klaus@diku.dk Subject: Re: Identify this game THE_DA-DA_DUMMY writes: Trivial indeed. Crosby has acknowledged his debt to Barker several times in print. I don't think anybody is surprised, even those who may not have known. I do not remember seeing this anywhere, and I was certainly surprised when I read Man of Gold. On the other hand, I do remember seeing a reference to Tolkien as having written the best describtion of "Midgaad". Klaus O K From: klaus@diku.dk Subject: Gods Harn's pantheon is a very unusual one. There is no psychopomp. More relevant to this thread, there are no nature gods. Not only is there no sea god, there is no sun god, no storm god, no rain god, no plant god. Even Peoni is not really an earth or plant or fertility goddess, she is a peasant goddess. Agrik is nominally a fire god, but he is really more of a marauder god. We have a knight god, a peasant god, a viking god, a scholar god, an assassin god. All gods of a way of life rather than an aspect of nature. Thus a fisherman's god or a sailor's god would fit better than a god of the mighty sea. Halea the trader goddess seems a good choice for a sailor, while Peoni might double as a fisherman's goddess. According to Gods of Harn, the gods therein are worshiped all over western harn, the eastern pantheon is different. The real 1001 Nights is indeed set in a monotheistic culture, the muslim Caliphate of Bagdad. Klaus O K From: Magnus Lycka Subject: Re: Names for tribespeople > >I use a bit of shareware for the Mac call Travesty. It reads a body of text > >and compiles statistics on the incidence of letter combinations. I keep > >lists of names in several languages to use as source files. This produces > >good names which retain a particular flavor. > > > >Mark > > How about putting it in the archives at sunbane? > > (Or is it in all the usual, big archvies?) > > phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu > I want a PC version :-( JML From: Magnus Lycka Subject: Re: re copyright > > From: klaus@diku.dk > Subject: Re: re copyright > Mark Hazen writes: > I think there is a point here though about availability of articles from > the EH and Chybisa modules. I know that there was a long discussion about > the two versions of Chybisa and the herblore article. Perhaps CH needs to > put out a reprint of the articles, and/or form a reprint service on > reasonable paper (maybe unbound and three hole punched). > Please NOT three hole punched. Those useless wholes are uncomfortably close > to the wholes that must be punched to place pages in a standard four ring > binder. It is better to let people punch whatever wholes they need for > their binders. > Klaus O K The Swedish community agrees with Denmark here, (and I'm sure the finnish does too.) JML From: Magnus Lycka Subject: Re: Weapon Skills > > From: ianmc@sybase.com (Ian McCreery) > Subject: Weapon Skills > > Hello All- > > I DID end up buying Harnmaster....very interesting. I enjoy the > character generation system (although magic/sorcerors are almost too > non-existent for my taste), but I have a question: Magicians are more outlined in the 2nd edition of the magic rules: Tome of Shek-Pvar. This is sold separately, as are 7 spell booklets. > > For several of the occupations, rather than an SB listed, it lists > "OML+SB" -- did I miss something? What does this mean? Several > occupations list their weapon skills this way + I believe the Language > skill levels are listed in a similar way : " 70+SB"...(?) The Skill base (SB) is a measure of a characters aptitude for a skill, depending on attributes and astrological factors. (Average of three attributes plus possibly an astrological bonus.) The SB for a skill is found in the skills table. Opening Mastery Level (OML) is also found in this table. It is a measure of what Mastery Level (ML) a character will have when he first learns to use a new skill. If I remember right, Cooking OML is 3, so if you just learned to cook and have a SB of 13 for that skill you will start with ML 39 (3*13). The Occupations Table shows what skills people of different occupations have, and what ML they have at end of apprenticeship or similar. There are no SBs in this table, but numbers that are to be multiplied with SB to find out initial ML. In some cases, it says "Weapon OML+1" or something like that. This is because the OML in the skills table is different for different weapons. If you choose an axe, OML is 2 (I think) so the character of this occupation should begin with a ML of SB*3, but if he choose a sword (OML 3) he would have an initial ML of SB*4. So unless the stars or physical attribute makes SB for axe more than 33% better than SB for the sword (I know, SBs are different for the different swords/axes, I'm simplifying) it will be easier to use the sword to begin with. It says OML + 1 for weapons for fighting occupations as it is presumed that one who has worked as a mercenary etc is more proficient than someone who just started using the weopon (and starts at OML). Then in actual play, you use Effective Mastery Level (EML) which is current ML plus/minus various bonuses/penalties. For instance, sum of encumberance, fatigue and injury points (called physical penalty) is almost always subtracted from ML to find out EML. I hope this didn't confuse you... > > Ian > > > JML -- Name .............: Magnus Lycka, MSc, Design Engineer | All opinions Office Address ...: Saab Ericsson Space AB | expressed here S-405 15 GOTEBORG,SWEDEN | are my own. Office Phone .....: int+46 31 354229 | Fax ..............: int+46 31 359520 | Email ............: Magnus_Lycka@space.combitech.se | From: Magnus Lycka Subject: Re: More on tribal names > > From: Jamieson Norrish > Subject: Re: More on tribal names > > > I found the paper on Solori and Bujok dialects interresting. I > > think there as an pronounciation article in one of the HLs, but I > > haven't read it. My first and most important comment is that the > > document needs much more examples to be useful to amateurs like me. > > In other words, aenwa/aedwa is not enough! A list of ten or thirty > > words per language or so, would greatly improve the use of this > > paper. (The more the merrier, of course.) Another thing that is > > needed then is naturally a definition of how the sounds are > > written. (I suggest that we write in Latin letters, even if lakise > > or runic would be more apprpriate.) > > Well, I did point out that the paper was based almost entirely off > only two names for each dialect, since two names are all that I had > from the official articles. If anyone has any more, I would love to Sorry, about that, I missed that comment. I saw it after mailing my reply. > know about them, since it would enable the phonology to be made more > complete. As for providing examples of names generated using the > article, that is certainly easy enough to add, and I'll do so at some > point. However, much of the point of the document was to enable the > reader to make up words which fitted into the language - thus all the > (CVC)C stuff... > > Jamie > Still the subject of coding phonetics to spelling remain. There was this cockney T sound for instance... It would naturally be simplest if we could decide to use some way of spelling that makes it easy to understand the pronounciation. If there isn't any set rules that my suggestion brakes, I would for instance suggest that we use double vowels for long vowel sounds in Solori. It's much more difficult to code programs for making random words if the length of the vowel is determined by doulbe following consonants for instance. I'm a total ignorant on this field, but I think Finnish is coded as I propose. I made two small pascal programs last night that produced words in accordance with the paper, but my spelling might be unorthodox. JML -- Name .............: Magnus Lycka, MSc, Design Engineer | All opinions Office Address ...: Saab Ericsson Space AB | expressed here S-405 15 GOTEBORG,SWEDEN | are my own. Office Phone .....: int+46 31 354229 | Fax ..............: int+46 31 359520 | Email ............: Magnus_Lycka@space.combitech.se | From: Jamieson Norrish Subject: Re: More on tribal names > I found the paper on Solori and Bujok dialects interresting. I > think there as an pronounciation article in one of the HLs, but I > haven't read it. My first and most important comment is that the > document needs much more examples to be useful to amateurs like me. > In other words, aenwa/aedwa is not enough! A list of ten or thirty > words per language or so, would greatly improve the use of this > paper. (The more the merrier, of course.) Another thing that is > needed then is naturally a definition of how the sounds are > written. (I suggest that we write in Latin letters, even if lakise > or runic would be more apprpriate.) My apologies for replying to the same message twice, but new developments are taking place. Namely, I am now working on a sample lexicon for both dialects (this is in its preliminary stages, so don't expect anything for a while). This list contains the word written using the English alphabet, the word transcribed using IPA characters, and an English translation of the word. This has, naturally, led also to the development of an elementary morphology for the language. Although the translations of the dialectic words may be of no use to many, it will hopefully help show the way words interact, and how they reflect the lifestyle and ideas of the culture to which the language belongs. For example, the Solori, being only rudimentary agriculturists, relied and rely heavily on hunting for food. This is reflected in the word for meal being a variation on the word for meat, which is itself a compound of other words or word-parts. On a final, trivial note, is there a tenable relationship between Agrik and farming? :) Jamie From: phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Paul Lehman) Subject: Re: Weapon Skills >For several of the occupations, rather than an SB listed, it lists >"OML+SB" -- did I miss something? What does this mean? Several >occupations list their weapon skills this way + I believe the Language >skill levels are listed in a similar way : " 70+SB"...(?) Well, since no one else has answered this yet [Eric: delete if already answered]: OML+SB means that the starting mastery level (ML) should be set to the sum of the "regular" opening mastery level (in other words, the OML for all characters or characters in general) PLUS the relevent skill's skill base (SB). In effect, this means that the character starts with a ML one SB higher than normal. 70+SB works the same way. Set the opening language ML to 70 plus the skill base for languages. In case it isn't clear skill base is the average of three different ability scores. Which three exactly depends on the skill. Hope that helped. ---------- phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu .sig under repair From: mdabbott@aol.com Subject: Re: Names for tribespeople >>I use a bit of shareware for the Mac call Travesty. It reads a body of text >How about putting it in the archives at sunbane? >(Or is it in all the usual, big archvies?) It should be in just about any of the major Mac archives. I think I got it from sumex but it's been awhile so I don't remember for sure. How about this, anybody who wants it should look in the normal places but if they can't find it I'll send a copy along. I've also got some name lists which could be used with it. And of course, I'm always looking for names lists in new languages, if anybody has some. Mark Subject: An unofficial request from an official :) From: a481@mindlink.bc.ca (J.D. Frazer) I have a few things to mention before I get to the main purpose of this letter: 1) Yes, Harnlore 12 is late. It already *was* late when I came on board. Someone at the office just got an earful for *still* being tardy with the maps for Bedenes. And no, it wasn't Tom that got the earful. 2) The written material and graphic roughs for Harnlore 13 have been completed and will be in Tom's hands this Thursday or Friday. 3) The writers' guidelines will be posted once Tom and I finalize them this weekend. 4) Yes, our consistently missed deadlines are an annoyance. More to the point, it's really beginning to annoy *me*. Which leads me to my request. I need letters from the members of the list. I need you to help me convince Robin that computerized maps (which seem to be keeping HarnLore from being published on time) are unattractive and *not* what you folks want. Help me convince Robin of that, and HL will approach some semblance of a quarterly publication. After this is accomplished, I'll move onto tackling the deadlines for the main product line. I'm not sure what would be the best way to do this. Interested parties could mail letters directly to me (in which case please put MAPS in the subject header) or Eric could compile a slew of replies and post them as one message to the list (up to you, Eric, I'll work either way). [Ed. note: Please, I'd prefer you send messages directly to JD. However, if you have some problem doing that, please make sure that you also have MAPS in the subject line when you submit to me, so I know what to archive and not send out immediately. Thanks. Eric] In any case, I appreciate any support you can give me in this. Editors need all the help they can get when they try to butt heads with designers. :) -- J.D. Frazer, a481@mindlink.bc.ca | Columbia Games Internet Representative Vancouver, B.C., Canada | Editor of Harnlore From: THE_DA-DA_DUMMY Subject: Re: Identify this game >> Trivial indeed. Crosby has acknowledged his debt to Barker >> several times in print. I don't think anybody is surprised, even those who >> may not have known >I do not remember seeing this anywhere, and I was certainly surprised when >I read Man of Gold. On the other hand, I do remember seeing a reference to >Tolkien as having written the best describtion of "Midgaad". In one of the recent Harnlores he even refers to Chlen hide, as a potential model/example for Superior Kurbul. -Duncan From: Petri Heiramo Subject: Re: Weapon Skills > > From: ianmc@sybase.com (Ian McCreery) > Subject: Weapon Skills > > Hello All- > > I DID end up buying Harnmaster....very interesting. I enjoy the > character generation system (although magic/sorcerors are almost too > non-existent for my taste), but I have a question: > > For several of the occupations, rather than an SB listed, it lists > "OML+SB" -- did I miss something? What does this mean? Several > occupations list their weapon skills this way + I believe the Language > skill levels are listed in a similar way : " 70+SB"...(?) > > Ian SB means Skill Base which you must know by now. ML is SB times OML. OML+SB means basically that you add 1 to OML and that your ML is now SB times OML + SB. 70+SB means that you add your language SB to 70 and that's your ML then. (I hope this doesn't sound like a sermon ;) Jours, Petri From: Petri Heiramo Subject: GODS!! This thread about sea gods gave me an idea for a campaign. What if there suddenly came a god to fill the spot for a sea god. He would probably start by causing storms and appearing to the sailors in them calming the sea around and speaking. He would probably threaten with storms if no devotion would come and promise gifts (favorably winds, good fishing, etc.) to those who pray to him. Now, how would the other gods react to this? Sarajin might become quite enraged (would be like him, especially since his people are seafarers). Peoni might not do anything and Larani neither. Halea would probably feel endangered since much of the trade is by sea. What about others? I know this sounds much like high power campaigns do, but could we make it in low power? I think all we have to do is scale down the PC interaction with these powers (ie. gods fight among themselves, people among themselves) by pitting the PC's against the mortal followers of these gods (assassinations for the evil characters, noble fights for the Laranians, savage assaults for vikings, etc.). Of course, the gods would be forced to help their followers more (especially the new sea god would) and thus bring the gods closer to the PC's. Hmmm... maybe I should do this stuff myself... I haven't had this good a campaign idea for ages. ;) Help me out, and contribute to the plot line. I think we could make this into something. Jours, Petri From: Petri Heiramo Subject: Re: re copyright > > Please NOT three hole punched. Those useless wholes are uncomfortably close > > to the wholes that must be punched to place pages in a standard four ring > > binder. It is better to let people punch whatever wholes they need for > > their binders. > > Klaus O K > The Swedish community agrees with Denmark here, (and I'm sure the finnish > does too.) > > JML You're right. They do. Petri Ps. sorry for this letter. I just had to write it. From: andyr@comm.mot.com (UK478 Andy Ransom) Subject: Re: re copyright > From: Magnus Lycka > Subject: Re: re copyright > > > > > From: klaus@diku.dk > > Subject: Re: re copyright > > Mark Hazen writes: > > I think there is a point here though about availability of articles from > > the EH and Chybisa modules. I know that there was a long discussion about > > the two versions of Chybisa and the herblore article. Perhaps CH needs to > > put out a reprint of the articles, and/or form a reprint service on > > reasonable paper (maybe unbound and three hole punched). > > Please NOT three hole punched. Those useless wholes are uncomfortably close > > to the wholes that must be punched to place pages in a standard four ring > > binder. It is better to let people punch whatever wholes they need for > > their binders. > > Klaus O K > The Swedish community agrees with Denmark here, (and I'm sure the finnish > does too.) So does the UK! In fact I'm not aware of any place in Europe where three hole punch is standard. I know it is the standard in North America, but elsewhere 2 or 4 hole punch is much more common. This has always been a problem for European games, and it's time the US games companies wised up! Andy From: Paul Sharples Subject: Re: An unofficial request from an official :) J.D. Frazer wrote: > I need letters from the members of the list. I need you to help me convince > Robin that computerized maps (which seem to be keeping HarnLore from being > published on time) are unattractive and *not* what you folks want. Help me > convince Robin of that, and HL will approach some semblance of a quarterly > publication. I've never set eyes on any issues of HL. Does this mean that I've never seen a computerized map? The last product I was able to get my hands on was, erm (a bit long ago, now), Kiraz. I have a few EH maps with the guild badges on them which I believe I acquired after Kiraz, but I can't remember the name of the module. Assuming I haven't seen one, then could somebody describe them to me in terms so graphic that I'll puke. Then I'll be only too happy to contribute to the petition ;-} Cheers. -- Paul Sharples INTERNET: paulsh@inmos.co.uk INMOS Ltd JANET: paulsh@uk.co.inmos 1000 Aztec West UUCP: uknet!inmos!paulsh Bristol BS12 4SQ, U.K. Telephone: +44 454 616616 FAX: +44 454 617910 From: mak@ticipa.works.ti.com (Michael Kilgore) Subject: RE: Arabian Nights... >From: Mark Hazen > >[...] although it is possible for there not to be a full service >pantheon it would not last long. At least not if the Gods need >followers and if they do not then why do they work so hard at >obtaining new ones (or do they?) One might postulate (as many authors >have, see the Rose of the Prophet etc.) that as the numbers of >believers varys so does the power of the God. It needn't be the case, necessarily, that what people want has direct influence over what divine powers or principals are present or have influence, whether (as above) through a sort of market- or power-driven mechanism, or through mythological necessity. When I look at some of the other strongly individual game worlds, I see several complementary themes in the nature of gods and their relations to mortals. (I have in mind Glorantha and Tekumel, but pick your own favorites.) Harn too, as described, has a coherence of its own. Where it differs, though, is that the referee has a fair amount of freedom in how the themes are mixed, while still being able to retain essentially the same view of gods. 1. (lifted from HarnView) A god may not need or want worship, and what mortals worship need not be a god (or any kind of actually existing entity). 2. The same applies to a group of gods. It might or might not be seen as coherent by its members, independently of whether mortals see it so. ("Coherence" here means that somehow the actions and attitudes of the gods are tied together. This doesn't preclude gods that are opposed to one another on principal or for more mundane political reasons.) 3. A "full-service" group of gods might be so out of mythological necessity (as the First Gods were), or it might have developed in that direction in response to mundane influence. In game play, the myriad Gloranthan gods are mostly closely related and form more or less full-service pantheons that both mirror and shape mortal society. When a referee adds a god, a key question always must be addressed: how does the god fit in mythologically with all the others? Gods can exist without worship but must depend on mortals to change the world within Time. The 20 gods of Tekumel form a very symmetrical, fairly full-service, highly coherent pantheon that seems to have existed without reference to mortals. Apparently they showed up one day and said, "Here we are, like it or lump it." People barter for what the gods offer, but (I don't believe that) humble matters like agricultural fertility enter into it. What the gods get out of it all remains to be revealed if Prof. Barker ever finishes his series. As I suggested in an earlier post, within Kelestia the First Gods are the ones that exist by mythological necessity: whatever coherence the Lesser Gods have as a tribe is due to both the Concordat and the nature of Kelestia as the framework that limits them. What I personally might be inclined to do is tell the players that there is, indeed, a divinity that pilots address pretty successfully. But I don't feel compelled mythologically to have one just because the sea is there. So perhaps I might posit an actual entity with some power over pilotly concerns, whether as an authentic god, or as an ambitious demigod, or as something else working a scam, and let dynamics with the other gods drive some long-term plotlines. Or perhaps there is no god of the winds and the waves: some genius has developed an intuitive grasp of oceanic sciences in terms of the familiar, namely animistically. Belief in a god of the waters works (as Asimov observed in _Foundation_) more or less; and dynamics of these beliefs with the gods would lead to yet other plotlines, not necessarily the ones that have been worked out in the literature already. -- Michael Kilgore Texas Instruments, Inc. (214) 917-2219 mak@works.ti.com From: Magnus Lycka Subject: Re: More on tribal names > > From: Jamieson Norrish > Subject: Re: More on tribal names > [Stuff deleted] I'll be pleased to see the lexicon! > > On a final, trivial note, is there a tenable relationship between > Agrik and farming? :) Only if it concerns burn-beating 8-) > > Jamie > JML -- Name .............: Magnus Lycka, MSc, Design Engineer | All opinions Office Address ...: Saab Ericsson Space AB | expressed here S-405 15 GOTEBORG,SWEDEN | are my own. Office Phone .....: int+46 31 354229 | Fax ..............: int+46 31 359520 | Email ............: Magnus_Lycka@space.combitech.se | From: lee@sq.com Subject: Re: Names for tribespeople I might still have something like `travesty' written in C for Unix, more than a deecade ago, by Kay Dekker at Warwick. I'll have a look tonight when I go home, if I can stay awake long enough. Lee From: Mark Hazen Subject: A new God on the Coast? Oh my ____ Ref: Gods and the idea for a campaign where some immortal tries to horn in on the action. I think that before jumping off into the campaign there are some underlying assumptions that need to be harden up. - What is the underlying motivation for Gods wanting believers? I see at least two options (1) Gods obtain some sort of power in relation to the number of believers that they have. This power is above any power that might normally accue to an immortal (and could become addictive or at some point negate access to other sorts of power) (2) Gods already have the supernatural capabilities and are only interested in believers in order to advance their own world view and/or personal interests. There are points for and against both. In the first there would be a constant jockeying for position and attention of potential believers/faithful With the second there must be at least as many powerful immortals who do not give a fig for human affairs about, but who might from time to time drop in. In either case there is room for the proposed campaign. On the matter of that campaign. If it is a minor immortal making her/hsi bid for fame on Ketheria then I would suggest that it would not do it by making a big splash since it would require building a powerbase before trying to openly challenge the ruling junta. - thus one could see a slow infiltration of the faithful amongst a target group like the seamans guild, and merchants with appropriate miricles and good luck falling to the faithful (especially those guided by the enlightened leadership) and bad luck to those who do not. The bad luck might be storms or could be selective piracy etc. If the second type of background is evident then one might see the more showy events, which could blow the concordat wide open. Or less showy but more jihad like take over as the religious fever sweeps the seaboard before the established Gods can mount a defence. (see Morgath in Western Harn) About the Concordat, I think that it has to be assumed that all immortals to some extent must be bound by this even though we only know of the ten. In the first case above the concordat must bind all those who would access the power of believers, in the second case we assume that there are either no new immortals so all were involved in making the agreement or that the ten will band together to force any newcomer to join the agreement if the newcomer makes too big an impact on Ketheria. (? Since my GofH is at home, does the Concordat bind the Gods on Yashain?) In any event I stick by my feeling that the actionsosf Gods must remain non-overt. Many times their actions will only be obvious to the faithful and doubt will remain amongst the others. Thus they will work through their followers and minor miracles, of course a sudden squall at sea with few if any observers - well these things happen naturally dont they? It onlyt affected the ship belonging to the merchant who refused to donate to the new chapel at the seamans mission? that is very strange. Well the prudent merchant should cover all her bets. On the reactions from teh established Gods. Well I personally think that Sarajin is under siege from the Gods of the more civilized nations (MOrgoth civilized hard to believe) and in the next while will have to adapt (maybe he will become a sea God in the end). Halea on the other hand is on the ascendance and will take any competition rather hard, and her churches are well connected. Larani will not notice, and Peoni will shrug her shoulders and say the more the merryer so long as no one is hurt. (she might lose some fishermen) This brings up the matter of worshiping more than one God. If my reading of roman and greek and norse religions is right, the people acknowledged all or most of the Gods, but generally had one that they attended to most often. I should think that this means that it is the prayers and donations that might matter. Thus a new sea God would detract some prayers and donations from the other Gods thus reducing their power base. One can see priest characters being sent out to combat the loss of faith in their Gods capability to handle the same situation as the new God. To disrupt a campaign of conversion or to start a campaign of conversion, or just to infiltrate and report back to say the Council in Melderyn. Or one of the characters converting and . . . From: Jamieson Norrish Subject: Re: More on tribal names Magnus Lycka writes: > Still the subject of coding phonetics to spelling remain. There was > this cockney T sound for instance... It would naturally be simplest > if we could decide to use some way of spelling that makes it easy > to understand the pronounciation. If there isn't any set rules that > my suggestion brakes, I would for instance suggest that we use > double vowels for long vowel sounds in Solori. It's much more > difficult to code programs for making random words if the length of > the vowel is determined by doulbe following consonants for > instance. I'm a total ignorant on this field, but I think Finnish > is coded as I propose. I made two small pascal programs last night > that produced words in accordance with the paper, but my spelling > might be unorthodox. Just a couple of comments on this: firstly, as I mentioned in a previous message, I am now working on a lexicon, which includes not only my spelling on the words, but also their phonemic transcripts - this should help you see how *I* spell the words. Secondly, I wonder whether the two tribes in question had a written language at all. If they didn't, this would make the whole question of how to spell words properly redundant, since people would simply make up their own minds if they came to write any words down. Even if there was literacy among the society, that is no guarantee that spelling will be consistent and uniform. I think that, since there is so little information to go on, each person running a game can decide how words are written for their own game. My own system does not use double vowels to show length (at least not in any of the words I have invented so far), but I hope that won't stop you from doing so if that is more convenient. Jamie From: Axel Schudak Subject: Winter`s Death (new module) Hail thou, all ye fello Harnians A friend of mine told me yesterday that there is a new Harn module in our local shop. Since I always read this list I was rather sceptical. Nonetheless I immedialtely left my work and went to the shop. There it was : A brandnew adventure module for HarnWorld. Thats the good news. The bad news are, that this module is published in german language. Its name is "Die Toten des Winters" (The Dead of the Winter, although I prefer Winter's Death). There is a 20 page article about CHENDY, a Laranian monastry in southern Kanday and a 14 page adventure part. The maps and artwork are from Eric Hotz, Text and buildings from Bohnsack/Kapp, a german author team. As far as I can judge it, the contents is up to the usual standard (meaning very high), the adventure gives the feeling of Umberto Ecos "Im Namen der Rose" (The Name of the Rose ?). I would like to know (from all who have access to Columbia representatives) if this module will be published in the regular HarnWorld line, too (BTW, the german module is published by Mania Productions, Duesseldorf, who already published some translations of Harn stuff). Are there any other foreign language translations planned ??? (Actually I speak some german, but other languages (danish, swedish, finnish are most likely, I guess) would be quite a problem for me. If there is any interest, I will post a summary about the module. My condolences to all who cannot read german. Axel Uni Oldenburg Germany From: Mark Hazen Subject: Re: re copyright >From: andyr@comm.mot.com (UK478 Andy Ransom) > >In fact I'm not aware of any place in Europe where three hole punch is standa\ rd. > >I know it is the standard in North America, but elsewhere 2 or 4 hole punch i\ s >much more common. > >This has always been a problem for European games, and it's time the US games >companies wised up! All right already, who was to know on this side of the Atlantic that Europe does something else wierd besides voltage levels, calling parts of cars and elevators by strange names etc. But since it has been brought up Columbia Games (note: I got it right this time) is not an US company but based out of Vancouver Canada, nor do I live in the USA, but in Nova Scotia, Canada. I therefore amend my suggestion to the pages being unbound so that they can easily be 2, 3, 4, 5, ... hole punched easily. Having made a mess of my first set of EH articles on trying to separate the pages this is a major point for me. Mark Hazen Dartmouth, N.S. CANADA North America (somewheres north of the USA) From: Magnus Lycka Subject: Read this Frazer! > > From: Axel Schudak > Subject: Winter`s Death (new module) > > Hail thou, all ye fello Harnians > A friend of mine told me yesterday that there is a new Harn module > in our local shop. Since I always read this list I was rather > sceptical. Nonetheless I immedialtely left my work and went to > the shop. There it was : A brandnew adventure module for HarnWorld. > Thats the good news. > The bad news are, that this module is published in german language. > Its name is "Die Toten des Winters" (The Dead of the Winter, although > I prefer Winter's Death). > There is a 20 page article about CHENDY, a Laranian monastry in > southern Kanday and a 14 page adventure part. The maps and artwork > are from Eric Hotz, Text and buildings from Bohnsack/Kapp, a > german author team. > As far as I can judge it, the contents is up to the usual standard > (meaning very high), the adventure gives the feeling of Umberto Ecos > "Im Namen der Rose" (The Name of the Rose ?). > > I would like to know (from all who have access to Columbia representatives) > if this module will be published in the regular HarnWorld line, too (BTW, the > german module is published by Mania Productions, Duesseldorf, who already > published some translations of Harn stuff). Are there any other > foreign language translations planned ??? (Actually I speak some german, > but other languages (danish, swedish, finnish are most likely, I guess) > would be quite a problem for me. > > If there is any interest, I will post a summary about the module. We want that! > > My condolences to all who cannot read german. Hrmpf! > Axel > Uni Oldenburg > Germany > An adventure module for Harn is a rare thing indeed! It can't be spoiled. We want this in English too!!! (I'm fairly certain that I am speaking for a vast majority of the people on the list (any many others too).) Whether Mania or Columbia should translate it is of less interest, but perhaps Mania works faster? JML -- Name .............: Magnus Lycka, MSc, Design Engineer | All opinions Office Address ...: Saab Ericsson Space AB | expressed here S-405 15 GOTEBORG,SWEDEN | are my own. Office Phone .....: int+46 31 354229 | Fax ..............: int+46 31 359520 | Email ............: Magnus_Lycka@space.combitech.se | From: Mark Hazen Subject: RE: Winter`s Death (new module) >german module is published by Mania Productions, Duesseldorf, who already >published some translations of Harn stuff). Are there any othe Does this mean that Columbia Games has licensed Mania Productions to publish Harnworld stuff?? If so would it not pay Mania or CG big time to translate the module and put it out in English. Sounds like another issue to lobby CG on. If CG cannot get things out in reasonable times then the least they can do is encourage other people to and take a small cut. mark From: phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Paul Lehman) Subject: Re: Winter`s Death (new module) >The bad news are, that this module is published in german language. >Its name is "Die Toten des Winters" (The Dead of the Winter, although >I prefer Winter's Death). >If there is any interest, I will post a summary about the module. Considerable interest in a summary and ordering information. I can just send DMs if that is easiest. ---------- phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu .sig under repair From: King Dirk Subject: Re: Winter`s Death (new module) Is there anyway us poor stateside people could get our hands on this (i.e does the publisher mail order?) Also what are the other pubs for Harn that have produced by entities other than CG? Greg Hines From: Magnus Lycka Subject: University Graduates on Harn? Is all non-esoteric academic research and higher education on Harn/Lythia connected to Save-K'nor? I haven't seen any universities or academic occupations described anywhere. I mean, Europe had universities during the middle ages and a lot of schools and higher education much earier than that. Just think of Greece or the great library in Alexandra (in Africa, I know). The exceptions are Heraldry and Arts. These areas are administered by heralds, thespians and harpers. There are not many cultural institutions either though. (Just a few theatres I think (One has limelight - Aleath?)). Coming to think of it I haven't seen anything on schools for children either! I realise that there won't be schools for _everyone_, but shouldn't there be some at least. I could imagine the various churches running schools for instance! In the academic field I assume there are philosophers, historians, botanists, zoologists etc. Are they all priests? There are they? I assume there would be people among the wealthy who would like to do these things. Are they all priests? I could well imagine Peonians specialicing in biology and health-related subjects. Zoology, Botany, Herblore and Physician as well as more mundane things as agriculture and gardening seems likely. The Laranian congregation is often more wealthy, consisting to a larger degree on nobility etc, and I could well imagine that they teach the rich boys and girls (I assume Harn to be much more sexually equal than Europe) to read and write. In some ways Agrik has a function in the dark lands that is similar to Larani, but as they are more into verbal traditions, they are less likely to teach a script. (Coming to think of it - why do they have an archive master in each temple?) I can also imagine that the church of Halea teaches mathematics and lakise for a proper donation. Naturally, the priests of Save-K'nor studies a lot. But do they spread their knowledge to people who aren't priests of the church? Perhaps not. Have any of you out there developed these issues? I just came to think of it... Have you constructed skills for these areas? JML -- Name .............: Magnus Lycka, MSc, Design Engineer | All opinions Office Address ...: Saab Ericsson Space AB | expressed here S-405 15 GOTEBORG,SWEDEN | are my own. Office Phone .....: int+46 31 354229 | Fax ..............: int+46 31 359520 | Email ............: Magnus_Lycka@space.combitech.se | From: Axel Schudak Subject: Re: Winter`s Dead (availability) For all out there who want to obtain a copy of this module : It sells (in my shop) for 27 DM, which will be some 11 british pound (10.4) and some 17$. If anyone is unable to get this copy, but desperately needs it, I will send him an exemplar. For exact prize I will have to ask for postage. (Perhaps I can get this module cheaper if I buy more of them). You can try to get this module by the publisher, Mania Productions, Duesseldorf. I will look for a better adress if necessary. (There were some bugs in my last letter, the most important being my inability to translate the title. It should read "Winter's Dead", not Death. Apologies...) Axel Axel.Schudak@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de From: Axel Schudak Subject: Lakise Font ? Hi, I would like to know if anybody out there has a Lakise Font. Axel Axel.Schudak@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de From: Axel Schudak Subject: Curse of Hlen - playing ideas Hi A while back somebody asked for hints, tips and ideas regarding the Curse of Hlen module. WARNING : Some of the following texts will include information about adventure plots in Curse of Hlen. If you are a player and enjoy good roleplaying, don't read it. I have two points to start with : 1. Handling Varax If the PCgroup enters Varaxis, they have no choice but to make the seven trials (if you follow the module). I rather like the seven trials, but not the way the PCs are enforced to do them. (Varax using a some magic). Here is my way of handling this : Varax will be much more communicative, he even will talk to worthy characters. He will offer them the choice of making the seven trials. If they succeed, he promises to help the group in their quest and may, for especially good performance, even grant some favor of Sace Knor (perhaps using his own powers). If the player decline this magnificient offer, he will become kind of disappointed and say something like "If you don't want to do the trials for the knowledge of Save Knor, you don't have to. (Here he will loose his friendlyness). Unfortunately for you, I have something that you NEED to fulfill your quest. You may go now... ". Here he will leave into the direction of his palace (which the player will and cannot enter). Hopefully they will think twice now, if not ... hey, they can always come back and try to persuade this old fellow (he will certainly give them the key, if not anything else, when they do the trials). I decided that the group will wake up in the vicinity of the palace and has to leave via the tree gate (forget the name right now) by themself. The PCs have no choice in this version either, they must do the seven trials. But my group will be much happier if they believe that they did this for an old scholar (even a stubborn old scholar), than for the requirements of a module. 2. Panagas background There a many questions about the nature of Panaga that are never answered. What are his intentions (exept becoming the most powerfull being), where did he come from, where will he be going etcetc. Now, there is some answer for this that I really like. I think I will make Panage the incarnation of Lothrim. Perhaps not even an incarnation but Lothrims own spirit, now brandnew in the body of an once minor agrikan servant, who has miraculously ascended in the ranks of agriks servants. The story : Lothrim, who was capable of disembodyment (just my assumption), left his body immediately after being entombed with his honour guard. His spirit could just feel his body being torn apart by the gargun. After some 500 years, a party of treasure hunters of Coranan broke the dwarfish seal that prevented Lothrims spirit from leaving. He needed quite some time to recover his spirit, but eventually he possessed a body. Whith this body he wandered about, searching for a better one. Some time ago he found the body of Panage, a harmless chap who was an unimportant follower of Agrik. If severely reprimanded for independent action, Lothrim will leave Panages body and look for another victim. (Just imagine the now free Panaga). Lothrims goal would be the destruction of all dwarfs and the enslavement of Harn. 3. Open questions One question that really bothers me is : what does Panaga with all the spirits and undead. Is there a goal behind his occupation of Hlen ? Using the Lothrim/Panage version, I would believe that he tries to raise a new army, now that he strongly dislikes gargun (guess why). If there are any comments or other ideas about CoH, feel free to flame me directly or by list. Axel Axel.Schudak@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de From: phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Paul Lehman) Subject: Re: Peleahn Spells I've got some comments, but everything is heavily editted to save space: >Level: II >Name: Fenton's Fiery Sling If I remember correctly, most spells of this sort require another success roll (against spell ML ususally?) to determine if the missile impacts. I.e. one roll for casting the spell and another roll for each missle. You might also want to make a distinction on damage between MS and CS. Perhaps 1d6+SI/2 for MS and as written for CS. The sling itself might also give off some sort of glow or fire. Whether this is mundane or ethereal depends, I would think, on the nature of the fire created by the spell. (I assume mundane.) >Level: II >Name: Fenton's Umbrella of Smoke I'm not sure I follow the logic in smoke shielding rain. Are we talking mundane or ethereal smoke? I assume also that MS would make heavy or medium rain mist or light rain. Correct? General power level and bonus effects seem right on. >Level: I >Name: Fenton's Pipe Do you want a limit on volume of fuel (besides the fatigue itself)? Is the less effecient combustion reflected somehow in the fire's nature (less damage, shorter burning time, etc.)? >Level: I >Name: Fenton's Space Heater Define "suitable fuel." Some guidelines on damage from enhanced fires and some absolute limits on intensity and volume would be good, but otherwise this is a great spell. >Level: I >Name: Fenton's Filter of Magic This really seems like Grey Magic when it starts to block other spells indiscriminately. Perhaps if it only worked against Peleahn (or Odivshe, but I have never been clear about Columbia's stance on the interaction between similar convocational principles and opposing ones). I agree completely with your note at the bottom, so just make it a multi-level spell that Fenton learned at first level! Granted that it had to be made up quickly, but you need to be very specific about its interaction with other spells as this is a critical area for game balance and GM/PC relations. ----- rbs, I assume we will see these soon in the collective spell book you're keeping, right? ;-) ---------- phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu .sig under repair From: phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Paul Lehman) Subject: Re: Names for tribespeople >I use a bit of shareware for the Mac call Travesty. Now at sunbane, although I should warn Mac users that it dates to 1988 so there may be problems (I haven't tested it yet). The archie search showed DOS and unix versions too, and ran to about 2 pages. >I've also got some name lists which could be used with it. Feed 'em to us. ---------- phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu .sig under repair From: Harry Butler Subject: Miscellaneous Questions, etc. I've been thinking about a few things for my campaign, and thought I'd post some followups to my own postings and some new questions: 1) Some time ago I asked for input on a Jmorvi Lockpicking spell. My fellow GM and I have decided that it is appropriately CL III, and that it will move the tumblers inside the lock to the necessary positions. I'll post the spell next week. 2) I'm not quite sure how long my herb material will be; if it seems to large, I'd be happy to put it on sunbane. Since I'm rather busy with my dissertation and grading midterms, it may be a few weeks until I can get even a draft done. In the meantime, I'd welcome any contributions others might have to a comprehensive list of Lythian herbs and their uses, which I'd incorporate into the list with due credit. 3) Does anyone know exactly how the Gargun on the mainland got there? Did I miss an explanation somewhere? Does anyone know if this question will be answered in the Gargun supplement? 4) How are people handling books and their contents? I work with medieval (Latin, English, French, and German) manuscripts, and what is striking to me is how diverse the contents of a single volume may be, either in terms of subject matter or in terms of authors, etc. Frequently larger mss. contain 10-20 works of varying length, usually, but not always, loosely connected by subject. And has anyone incorporated noted Lythian authors or works (particularly on specific topics) into their campaigns? The Shek-Pvar in my campaign have found some books a few times, and I've supplied both titles and authors and a rough "publishing history" (for example, a 6th cent. TR ms. copy of a work originally written in the 2nd cent. TR), but the odds are they should relatively frequently encounter copies of works they already have/have seen. I'm not sure how to work in this issue of popularity. 5) Has anyone else playing Harn read Pausanias' (3rd cent.) guide to Greece (which is available in a Penguin paperback in English translation; the Loeb edition contains some excellent site maps)? I'm thinking of using this for some background materials/geographical features for Karejia and perhaps the Umelrian League. What is especially striking about the work is the sheer abundance of religious sites and temples, not only within towns but also between them. Does anyone have similar sources they can recommend? Harry Butler From: pcrxs@valinor.giss.nasa.gov (R.B. Schmunk) Subject: Re: Lakise Font ? Axel Schudak asks: >I would like to know if anybody out there has a Lakise Font. I've worked on one. However, it's bit-mapped and only comes in one type-size. In other words, it looks like hell. I've thought about starting over, but I haven't gotten to the point where I'm willing to spend the money to purchase a font-design application. rbs -- R.B. Schmunk Email: pcrxs@valinor.giss.nasa.gov Smail: NASA/Goddard Institute, 2880 Broadway, New York, NY 10025 USA Vox: 212-678-5637