From: Keith Martin UGA Bookstore Computer Department Subject: Re: 2nd Kaldoric Civil War (was Re: Court of Ilvir) Going to Kiraz, huh? My group had a blast. they were so terrified of being tracked down and done in by vengeful dwarves that they took nothing from the place. I mean they left a _fortune_ behind. It was great. As far as the war in Kaldor, it has gone like this so far- Miginath dies in late winter 722 at olokand. Maldan Harabor, his bastard son, manages to conceal the kings death until he can send word to a> Ivinian mercenaries he has been keeping "on retainer" for some time and b> The constables of the Royal Demesne, whose loyalty he is (mostly) able to secure. The clan succession council meets at Olokand. The emerging favorite for king seems to be Conwan Elendsa. An assassination attempt on Conwan Elendsa and Troda Dariune by Navehans is (narrowly) thwarted. (By the PC group.) The next day, the clan council meets for the last time and elects Conwan as head of clan Elendsa and therefore King of Kaldor. Maldan Harabor declares he will not give up his "birthright" and the Nobles in attendance depart to their own fiefs to prepare for the inevitable war. Koris Harabor, the Marshal of the Gaurd of Tashal, and Maldan's brother, sides with the Harabor faction. This actualy suits the Mangai in Tashal just fine, as they have no desire to see Troda Dariune, and therefore the emerging city of Khiban, gain any favor in the eyes of the crown. (Whoever may be wearing it. Most of the other fiefholders side with Conwan Elendsa, except for several of the Barons who stand to gain more if Harabor wins. The first engagements of the war will most likely revolve around Qualdris, as Sedris Melekin is still missing. . . . . All in all it stands to be a pretty bloody affair. We are hoping to resolve some of the scirmishes using the Battlelust rules. One thing that really impressed me as I began working on this whole thing was how widely everyone's holdings are scattered! It will be a major effort for the Elendsa faction to muster their troops before Harabor's already mobilised merc's and such can start conquering isolated keeps, etc. -- Keith Martin keith@moe.coe.uga.edu kbmartin@uga.cc.uga.edu ----------------------------------------- Everything you eat is waste But swallowing is easy when it has no taste From: Robert Schmunk Subject: New Savorya spell For those of you who like to collect spells, a new from my campaign. Comments on good/bad things about the spell would be appreciated. Savorya II Lizaveta's Bargain A spell to which causes a single victim within Range to believe that an item held or touched by the caster during casting is valuable and desirable. Thus, the victim feels compelled to purchase the item at a price greater than he would otherwise pay. The victim may test his Will to determine whether he succumbs to the effects of Lizaveta's Bargain; roll against Will x 4 (MS) or Will x 2 (CS) with the following results: CS Victim believes the caster is trying to con him and may become hostile. MS No effect MF Lesser effect. Victim is willing to purchase item at its base price (see Prices) times 0.5 x SI. CF Greater effect. Victim is willing to purchase item at its base price times SI. Note: At GM's discretion and depending on Morality, the victim might attempt to take the item in question by force. Bonus Effects ML81+ Effect of the spell may be extended to all persons within Range. Fatigue: (15-SI) x 1.5 Time: (15-SI) x 4 seconds Range: SI yards Duration: SI hours rbs -- Robert B. Schmunk SPAC, Rice University, Houston, TX 77251-1892 USA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ But I am only free in small places. Government is big, we are small. We are only free when we slip through the cracks. --Maureen F. McHugh, CHINA MOUNTAIN ZHANG From: andyr@comm.mot.com (UK478 Andy Ransom) Subject: Harnmaster questions Hi, A few years ago (3+) I ran a campaign for about 18 months using Harnmaster rules, but based in my own world. Recently (last week) I've revived the campaign with a new set of players, however I'm a bit rusty on the rules and have a few questions. 1) If a character wants to use a weapon in each hand, can he attack with both in a single combat round? As far as I can see the rules seem to suggest you can't, but I'm currently allowing it at -10 to ML with both weapons plus the primary/secondary handiness penalties of the specific weapons used. 2) With area of effect spells such as orb of zatra what location do you apply damage to. Logically it would seem reasonable to apply damage to all locations within the area of effect. However from the point of view to game mechanics this seems overly powerful. 3) How much damage does flaming oil do? My party are about to try and lure some Gargun into an area with oil spread on the floor and then fire it. 4) I'm still using the original magic rules from the Harnmaster rule book I've never seen the Tome of the Shek-Pvar and I'm wondering if it's worth upgrading. I'm not a collector of things harnic just for the sake of it, and one of the things I like about harn is the small number of spells available (forcing players to develop there own) so I'm not interested in long list of new spells. However if the Tome of the Shek-Pvar has significant new rules or clarifications on the existing magic rules I would be interested. Can anybody give me a 'mini review' of Tome of the Shek-Pvar? 5) In the HML logs which Eric sent me when I joined the list there is some mention of Martial Arts. This was fairly early on in the logs, have there been any official rules published since then? One of my players is a Gladiator with an obscenely high unarmed combat skill (ML 90 %) so this is likely to be relevant soon. Points 1 and 2 above are questions which have occurred during play. There may be rules to cover them in the Harnmaster rule book, but I couldn't find them quickly so I used a work around. However I'd like to know what the rules say (if anything) and what rules other GMs use for them. The game has been suspended at point 3. The party is hoping to lure the Gargun through the oil as soon as play is resumed (next weekend), so I have a free hand to decided whatever I like here. Any comments, thoughts, opinions or even flames on any of the above are welcome. ------------------ Andy Ransom andyr@comm.mot.com ------------------ Subject: Re: Harnmaster questions From: Paul Stratton (Sierra Geophysics, Inc.) Andy Ransom andyr@comm.mot.com writes ! 5) In the HML logs which Eric sent me when I joined the list there is ! some mention of Martial Arts. This was fairly early on in the logs, ! have there been any official rules published since then? One of ! my players is a Gladiator with an obscenely high unarmed combat skill ! (ML 90 %) so this is likely to be relevant soon. Arguably not applicable at all for his present skill. He has 90% at a generic unarmed skill. Martial arts styles (kung fu, karate, judo) etc should be specific just like weapons. You might even want to carry it further to kicks, throws, strikes etc. Help me: is there a separate brawling skill? I'm rusty haven't really looked at the stuff in two years Paul Stratton paul@sierra.com From: Sean Matheis Subject: Re: Harnmaster questions > From: andyr@comm.mot.com (UK478 Andy Ransom) > Subject: Harnmaster questions > > Hi, > > A few years ago (3+) I ran a campaign for about 18 months using Harnmaster > rules, but based in my own world. > > Recently (last week) I've revived the campaign with a new set of players, > however I'm a bit rusty on the rules and have a few questions. > > > 2) With area of effect spells such as orb of zatra what location do you > apply damage to. Logically it would seem reasonable to apply damage > to all locations within the area of effect. However from the point of > view to game mechanics this seems overly powerful. The way it was always done in a campaign I played in was every body part exposed to the exploding orb took the damage, as applied to any armour. Makes this a REAL nasty spell - use common sense. If your players throws it at a group of gargun, it will probably only hit on "face" (side) of them rather than fill to encompass all parts (unless thrown in the infamous 10x10 room). > Any comments, thoughts, opinions or even flames on any of the above are > welcome. > > ------------------ > Andy Ransom > andyr@comm.mot.com > ------------------ > Good luck - Gargun are fun to fight, especially under BattleLust rules. Sean ccmsean@othello.ucdavis.edu From: Robert Schmunk Subject: Re: Harnmaster questions Andy Ransom writes: > 1) If a character wants to use a weapon in each hand, can he attack with > both in a single combat round? As I understand the rules, only if he gains a tactical advantage or if one of the weapons is used during a counterstrike. > 2) With area of effect spells such as orb of zatra what location do you > apply damage to. Logically it would seem reasonable to apply damage > to all locations within the area of effect. However from the point of > view to game mechanics this seems overly powerful. > > 3) How much damage does flaming oil do? My party are about to try and > lure some Gargun into an area with oil spread on the floor and then > fire it. I haven't had either of these situation pop up in my campaign yet, though there's a Peleahn in my campaign that I need to keep my eyes on. From reading the Explosion rules which appeared on HarnLine, it's my understanding that fire damage should be applied to *all* body parts affected, but as you note this could be a logistical nightmare. For the oil, afflict something like d6 fire impact per each body part per round. But remember, gargun have a pretty good sense of smell and may detect the oil before they enter the trap. > 4) I'm still using the original magic rules from the Harnmaster rule book > I've never seen the Tome of the Shek-Pvar and I'm wondering if it's > worth upgrading. You can survive without the Tome of the Shek-Pvar. I think the two features of this volume that I am using fairly consistently are (1) the detailed method for calculating the chance of learning a new spell and (2) bonuses/penalties to spell-casting ML. Come to think of it, the latter is pretty handy info. rbs -- Robert B. Schmunk SPAC, Rice University, Houston, TX 77251-1892 USA From: klaus@diku.dk Subject: Re: Harnmaster questions andyr@comm.mot.com (UK478 Andy Ransom) writes: 3) How much damage does flaming oil do? My party are about to try and lure some Gargun into an area with oil spread on the floor and then fire it. Lamp oil will not burn easily without a wick. It might catch fire if it gets very hot, that is if the house is already burning, but puring some on the ground and putting a torch to it will do nothing. Soaking a carpet in oil might work, though I don't think that it would ignite fast enough to do any damage to the orcs, assuming that there is room for them to move off the carpet. 4) I'm still using the original magic rules from the Harnmaster rule book I've never seen the Tome of the Shek-Pvar and I'm wondering if it's worth upgrading. I'm not a collector of things harnic just for the sake of it, and one of the things I like about harn is the small number of spells available (forcing players to develop there own) so I'm not interested in long list of new spells. However if the Tome of the Shek-Pvar has significant new rules or clarifications on the existing magic rules I would be interested. Can anybody give me a 'mini review' of Tome of the Shek-Pvar? There are NO spells in this tome. There are a lot of rules, divided into two parts. The first is a consistent set of rules, the second is a list of optional rules to pick and choose from. The changes I remember best are these: Written works are divided into four catagories. Only the most elaborate are of any use if you wish to learn spells not of your own convocation. All four are in principle useful if the spell is of your convocation, but in practise it is easier to invent such spells yourself. Starting shek pvar are made much weaker. There is a maximum of how many points you can use on one spell, and neutral spells are made more expensive. Spell development now gets easier as you learn more magic. The concept of multi-level spells is introduced. This is great for dispell and similar spells, but it weakens magicians considerably. One example: you can not start the game with a focus worth anything, and it is hard to see how you will ever get one during play. There are 7 tomes of spells. The comment on focus above assumes that you use the redefined focus from the gray tome. The main effect of these tomes is to make jmorvi sorcerors totally useless. The one thing they were good for, creating magic items, is now done by neutral spells. Klaus O K From: andyr@comm.mot.com (UK478 Andy Ransom) Subject: Re: Harnmaster questions > Arguably not applicable at all for his present skill. He has 90% at a generic > unarmed skill. Yes you could argue that, but the character had a 90% skill at the end of character generation, (Gladiators get Unarmed/5!) and as you can't increase Unarmed above 79% without training this implies that he got some sort of Unarmed Combat training during the pre-game. As he spent most of his life as slave and only escaped 3 months before game play started this implies that he was given training during his life as a Gladiator, again this seems very reasonable to me. However I glossed over the idea of Martial Arts as I didn't have rules for them, but the game has only just started and if I'm going to introduce MA rules I feel I should give him the option to use them. > Help me: is there a separate brawling skill? Not that I can think of, Unarmed Combat is used for punching, and kicking etc. as well as for attack using the grapple table. > I'm rusty haven't really looked at the stuff in two years Join the club, the last time I ran a game using HarnMaster rules was in 1989! > Martial arts styles (kung fu, karate, judo) etc should be > specific just like weapons. You might even want to carry it further to > kicks, throws, strikes etc. I'm not a Martial Arts expert and as this is my own game world and I can decide what (if any) MA exist, I'd be likely to keep it simple and not try to use actual Martial Arts. It'd be different if somebody else had already developed rules, but I guess from the response they haven't. While I'm on the subject of developing new rules I developed some rules for using firearms within Harnmaster. They include a new weapon aspect for bullets, and some basic weapon types. They were in a fairly early stage of development when the game folded, and have only been play tested for things like muskets etc. I have no idea how technically accurate they are, but they seemed to work okay. If anybody is interested in seeing them let me know. ------------------ Andy Ransom andyr@comm.mot.com ------------------ From: "SLAUGHTER" Subject: Re: Harnmaster questions Well, actually, this is about BattleLust. Have they announced any plans for any expansions or additional rules? Is there a source for errata for this book? I noticed that there seems to be few holes in the rules, especially for formations, that seem to need further explanation. Thanks! Bob ************************************************************************** * Bob Slaughter * Model Railroading * * InterNet: Haldane@Pine.Circa.Ufl.Edu * * * also: bss@math.ufl.edu * * * Bitnet: Haldane@UFPine * is Fun!! * ************************************************************************** From: "R.B. Schmunk" Subject: New York Harners? I just moved from Houston to New York City and suddenly find myself without a gaming group. If any of you are involved in in a Manhattan Harn campaign or know of one, and if that campaign is looking for players, please let me know about it. Thanks in advance, rbs -- R.B. Schmunk NASA/Goddard Institute, 2880 Broadway, New York, NY 10025 USA From: andyr@comm.mot.com (UK478 Andy Ransom) Subject: Harn archive site While reading through some of the old mail for the list I found a few enquiries about ftp archives sites for Harn related material. Well there is one. It's at sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.100.12) in the /pub/harn directory. The administrator for the archive is Dan Corrin (dan@engrg.uwo.ca), there is very little in the archive currently except some old 'Harn mailing list' logs, however I've mailed Dan about adding to the site and got the following reply: > If you want any files added to the archive, just place them in the > ~ftp/donations directory, and send me some mail, and I will move > the files to the correct directory. (This area is protected from > reading due to a CERT request, so you can't see the files, but can > write them there). So anybody out there with Harn material you'd like to expose to a wider public get ftping. Alternatively if you can't ftp but have something you'd like to place at the site you can mail it to me, and I'll place it there for you. ------------------ Andy Ransom andyr@comm.mot.com ------------------ [Ed. note: I just put the remainder of the Harn Mailing List archives (direct from my account) into the donations directory, and they (hopefully) will show up in their entirety at the sunbane address sometime soon. -Eric] From: pcrxs@nasagiss.giss.nasa.gov (R.B. Schmunk) Subject: NY Harners? A couple of things, starting with the most important: a) Are there any members of the mailing list in the NY metro area? I've just move up here from Houston and would like to get back into a HarnMaster campaign within the next few weeks. b) Have any Columbia products been released since February? When I called Columbia that month, Tom Dalgliesh made noises like "Curse of Hlen" was imminent and that "Nasty Brutish and Short" was pretty well along. Nobody seems to be posting here and I lost contact with the V-Net Harn group months ago, so I'm curious what the latest news is. c) The usual reminder to Harnophiles with Macintosh computers. I have numerous Macintosh files of great use to GMs and players alike. These include: i) spell tome (MS Word format), containing about 70 spells contributed by posters to this mailing list. ii) handy-dandy weather generator (stand-alone app) which is much better than the available on Harnline. Some bugs have been removed, so if you already have a copy, you may want to trade it in for version 1.1.0. iii) skill-base calculator (MS Excel spreadsheet). iv) miscellaneous tidbits. Ask me for a more complete list. d) An ASCII form of the spell-tome in (c)(i) above was posted to this mailing list last fall. I'm willing to post it again but would like to add some more spells before I do so. Only four spells have been added in the past nine months, since contributions have been *very* slow. If you want a copy of something from (c) or have feedback on (d), please don't bother Eric. E-mail me directly at . rbs -- R.B. Schmunk NASA/Goddard Institute, 2880 Broadway, New York, NY 10025 USA From: lee@sqlee.sq.com (Liam R. E. Quin) Subject: harn: Manor rules In blatant violation of the international laws on copyright, I typed the Harn Manor rules (EH4??) in nroff/troff format, about a decade ago. Someone recently asked for them, so I have found them. In addition, there are some C programs that I used to run a Manor campaign at about that time. If anyone is interested, I could make them available for ftp. I don't think you can buy the Manor rules any more... Lee -- Liam Quin, Manager of Contracting, SoftQuad Inc, +1 416 239 4801 lee@sq.com OPEN LOOK UI FAQ; lq-text full-text retrieval; ``Success in pleading for money is the sign of a true explorer today. I recognize a certain bitterness in this point of view.'' Giacomelli & Rubinsky/Christopher Columbus Answers all Charges From: Magnus Lycka Subject: Religion & Society on Harn (etc) (fwd) Hi there, I don't know if there is any chance of getting any response to this. I get the feeling that the Harn Mailing List is somewhat sleepy, or else I didn't get on it dispite the nice responce from mr. Parson... Anyway, I'll give it a try... During my casual visits to Harn I have gotten a feeling that this place is very much like England, yet so very different. A major difference from the middle ages of England is of course religion. I can see that, but I feel a but uncertain about the implications of these differences. I have a few concrete questions on this subject, and would appreciate any response from you all.... 1) What about the economics of marriage? During the time that Europe looked more like Harn, the traditions turned, from bride-prices (women as a utility) to dowries paid to the man by the father of the bride. (Women as a burden!) As far as I can recall, Jarin don't exchange money (and are more equal), and the Ivinians buy brides, but what are the standards on these issues in the monarchies, and the republic? (And among the tribes and on the continent if you happen to be enlightened...) 2) What about marriage outside one faith? In Europe, there could (and can still) be a lot of trouble with wedlock, even if both parties have the same god, due to small details such as weather or not the pope is someone to trust or not. I get the feeling that for instance a laranian man married to a peonian woman is a possibility (even fairly usual) on Harn. How is this achieved. Just the fact that there are several accepted religions in all the countries makes this very different from Europe. Would a man following Larani and a woman following Peoni have to marry once in each church, and then in a civic ceremony to get it legal as well, or what??? 3) What about funerals? I know that the nobility (and the Khuzdul) bury their dead in crypts. I have heard that common people just dig a hole in the ground where it suits them and dump dead bodies like garbage or something. OK, I guess they are a bit more advanced than we are, realising, that when the soul goes to Yashain, the body is nothing more than garbage, but aren't there any religious ceremonies when people die? In some religions?? 4) What about changing religion? Is it a big thing? I'm naturally aware of the moral implications! How about ceremonies here? I would guess that there are some formalities with taking some vow and being purified from the bad ideas the subject used to have. Ideas? Then over to another thing: During my last visit to Tharda, I sneaked into the temple of the Order of the Eight Demons in Shiran. I made some observations about this remarkable tower. I am presently compiling my observations. Would anyone out there like me to submit that to this list? Maybe you can correct me on some mistakes if you have made your own observations, or just enjoy reading about it if you haven't been there. Finally, do you think our friends in Vancouver would mind? I'm not really sure about copyright laws here. I mean, they have mapped it on the Shiran city map, and told us the name of one person living there. What I write could be considered to be based on their copywrighted works (by some- one who didn't understand that it is first hand observations on location). Hm, perhaps I'd better ask them... Hope to hear from you. Fare Well, and remember to always reset Godstones to the original setting after using them! Close-Eye -- Email ............: dcml@space.combitech.se From: pcrxs@nasagiss.giss.nasa.gov (R.B. Schmunk) Subject: HarnMaster ftp site I was pleasantly surprised to see the announcement by Andy Ransom in this mailing list last week regarding the HarnMaster ftp site available on sunbane. I have already begun placing some items for use on the Macintosh there (the weather generator and the Excel skill-base calculator) and will be placing more items such as the spell file (both Mac and ASCII) there in the coming weeks. I hope that others out there will do likewise, as I'm curious to see what other materials are available, like Klaus Kristiansen's Hypercard spell stack, Rick Morrow's ANSI-C weather and character generators, Liam Quin's ANSI-C manor program, etc. rbs -- R.B. Schmunk NASA/Goddard Institute, 2880 Broadway, New York, NY 10025 USA From: Rick.Morrow@f185.n225.z1.fidonet.org (Rick Morrow) Subject: Re: NY Harners? > better than the available on Harnline. Some bugs have been Speaking of Harnline, is it back up anywhere? I've been out of touch with them for a while and have since found that Duffle board is no longer operating. Any info? Rick -- =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= (Gated via FidoNet Node 1:1/31) Rick Morrow Internet: Rick.Morrow@f185.n225.z1.fidonet.org From: Magnus Lycka Subject: Aiming at the head etc. Hi there, while I'm at it, I thought I'd make another try... My players sometimes want to aim more specifically at a certain bodypart than the aiming zones allow. In some situations it seems plausible to me to to let them get a higher probability to hit, lets say a hand, if they compensate this with a penalty on EML. I thought that it could be reasonable to allow then to "move" their hit location x% for a -x% modification to EML. For example, if they hit someone with an extra -15 % on EML, and wanted to hit the groin (hit location 85), a hit location roll from 60 (85-15) to 00 (85+15 mod 100) would suffice to hit the specific bodypart. Is this to easy? Maybe it is better to only let them move in one direction (60 - 85 would hit). In the first example a -50 special penalty would allow someont to hit exactly in the spot he wants to. In the second example, the -50 s.p. would give him a 50% chance to hit just where he wanted. Thoughts anyone? Fare Well Close-Eye -- Email ............: dcml@space.combitech.se -- Name .............: Magnus Lycka, MSc, Design Engineer | All opinions Office Address ...: Saab Ericsson Space AB | expressed here S-405 15 GOTEBORG,SWEDEN | are my own. Office Phone .....: int+46 31 354229 | Fax ..............: int+46 31 359520 | Email ............: Magnus_Lycka@space.combitech.se | From: Jaakko Kankaanp{{ Subject: Re: Harn: Manor Rules > >I don't think you can buy the Manor rules any more... > >Lee On the contrary, all articles published by CG are available as photocopies via direct mail order. The price, as I recall, is a bit steep for a stack of Xeroxes, though... Jaakko _____ Jaakko Kankaanpaa ! Turku, Finland ! jac@kontu.utu.fi "I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition" From: surman@vortex.lgs.lsu.edu (Michael A. Surman) Subject: Origins '93 Just a little note to update everyone on Origins '93 and the Columbia Games booth. Columbia Games didn't have anything new for Harn. They did have a larger display for their new Civil War game. Seems to be what they were pushing. The 4 or 5 times I went to the dealers room and the Columbia booth no one was around to answer questions. If anyone will be attending GenCon maybe you'll have better luck than I did. Other than that the con wasn't too bad. Not as many people as last year, I'd say 2000-2500 or so. Being a wargaming con the emphasis is more along those lines. There were some rpg's, mostly AD&D with some Shadowrun, Traveller, Warhammer 40K and Fantasy, and a few more that I can't remember right now. Mike From: pcrxs@nasagiss.giss.nasa.gov (R.B. Schmunk) Subject: Re: Aiming at the head, etc. Magnus Lycka writes: >Subject: Aiming at the head etc. > >My players sometimes want to aim more specifically at a certain bodypart than >the aiming zones allow. In some situations it seems plausible to me to to let >them get a higher probability to hit, lets say a hand, if they compensate >this with a penalty on EML. I thought that it could be reasonable to allow >then to "move" their hit location x% for a -x% modification to EML. While I never got around to implementing it, this is identical to the same system I was thinking about using. However, as only of my players made a habit of calling his shots (he usually went for the head), it didn't seem worth the confusion to try a new house rule out on them. However, if your players know the combat rules well enough and are actually requesting something like this...go for it. rbs -- R.B. Schmunk NASA/Goddard Institute, 2880 Broadway, New York, NY 10025 USA From: andyr@comm.mot.com (UK478 Andy Ransom) Subject: Re: Aiming at the head, etc. Magnus Lycka writes: > My players sometimes want to aim more specifically at a certain bodypart than > the aiming zones allow. In some situations it seems plausible to me to to let > them get a higher probability to hit, lets say a hand, if they compensate > this with a penalty on EML. I thought that it could be reasonable to allow > then to "move" their hit location x% for a -x% modification to EML. For > example, if they hit someone with an extra -15 % on EML, and wanted to hit the > groin (hit location 85), a hit location roll from 60 (85-15) to 00 (85+15 mod > 100) would suffice to hit the specific bodypart. Is this to easy? Maybe it is > better to only let them move in one direction (60 - 85 would hit). In the first > example a -50 special penalty would allow someont to hit exactly in the spot > he wants to. In the second example, the -50 s.p. would give him a 50% chance > to hit just where he wanted. > Thoughts anyone? I'd say the second option is better, to allow for adjustment both ways is (IMHO) over the top. I'd probably allow movement one way or the other, depending on the relative size and positioning of the opponent. For example if the target is smaller or below the attacker (on foot fighting a mounted foe, or at the bottom of steps etc.), I'd allow the attacker to reduce the location number (ie. 50 down to 40 etc.), and if the target was taller or had a hight advantage I'd increase the location number (50 up to 60) this would give you a range of strike locations which would vary with positioning. If both opponents were on the same level and approximately the same height (within a foot each way) I'd say the attacker could choose to aim either high or low and adjust the dice roll appropriately. I still doubt I'd introduce such a rule as I can see it making combat a lot more dangerous, (lots more eye and groin hits for example), but if that's what you want go for it. Just remember that if players can do it so can NPCs... ------------------ Andy Ransom andyr@comm.mot.com ------------------ From: andyr@comm.mot.com (UK478 Andy Ransom) Subject: Re: Religion & Society on Harn (etc) Magnus Lycka writes: > Hi there, I don't know if there is any chance of getting any response to this. > I get the feeling that the Harn Mailing List is somewhat sleepy, or else I > didn't get on it dispite the nice responce from mr. Parson... Yes it is a bit quiet, and has been since before I joined back in April, I'm not sure why as you can see from the archives that it used to be reasonably busy. > 4) What about changing religion? Is it a big thing? I'm naturally aware > of the moral implications! How about ceremonies here? I would guess > that there are some formalities with taking some vow and being > purified from the bad ideas the subject used to have. Ideas? Okay well my campaign is not set in Harn (but does use the Harnmaster rules) so I'm not an expert on Harnic religions but the major differance between Europe in the middle ages and Harn is that in Harn all the gods are accepted as existing! Christianity is a 'thou shalt not worship false idols' type religion and as such medieval Europeans could not accept that other gods existed. As far as I'm aware nobody questions that all the major gods of Harn exist, the only question is which one should any individual follow. This eases tension between the follower of major gods quite a lot (although should not preclude the possibility of the odd Holy War now and again :). In most Pantheon type religions (both real world and game) the majority of the population do not follow one god. Instead they will pray and make offerings to which ever god is most applicable to there needs at any one time. Sure a farmer will mostly follow a 'nature god', but that does not preclude him from praying to a 'healing god' when his son falls ill, or a 'battle god' when his country is invaded and he marches off to war. Assuming that you accept the existance of 10+ gods then there is little point in not praying to the one which can help you most at anyone time. Of course there are exceptions, and if you follow any extreme religion then gods of an opposite persuasion are unlikely to help you, without a major demonstration that you are 'mending your ways'. The majority of the populace are however fairly 'middle of the road' and will call on a variety of gods at any time (whether or not your prayers will be answered is an entirely different matter...). The major exceptions to this are priests etc. who are tied by profession to one god, these are the only people who are likely to be sufficiently 'in favour' that a god will grant them aid (spells, miracles or whatever) and this is precisely because they are so 'unusually' dedicated to one god. > 2) What about marriage outside one faith? Well in the above scheme most people do not have one faith, they believe in a 'family' of gods so marriage should not be a problem unless the couple have wildly different personal views (eg. one mostly worships a 'death god' and the other a 'healing god') in which case they are pretty incompatible to start with. Any wedding ceremony is likely to be carried out in the tradditions of the dominant (in Europe generally male, unless the bride's family were significantly richer or more influential) families choice. But remember that in many medieval societies 'common-law' marriages would be more usual, especially among the peasant classes. As I mentioned this may not apply to Harn, but I cannot concieve how any medieval society which has 10+ gods can function if they are all as divsionist as say the catholics and protestants in 16th century England. Society would be ripped apart by regular wars, areas of the country would become sectarian, and I dread to think what would happen when a new ruler came to power who has a different religion to the old one. This sort of culture is just not viable. All the above is of course IMHO. I realise that religion can be an emotive subject, and I'd like to make it clear that none of the above is meant as a comment on any 'real' religion either historical or contemporary. ------------------ Andy Ransom andyr@comm.mot.com ------------------ From: pcrxs@nasagiss.giss.nasa.gov (R.B. Schmunk) Subject: Re: Religion & Society on Harn (etc) Magnus Lycka (>>) and Andy Ransom (>) write re Religion & Society on Harn (etc) >>1) What about the economics of marriage? >> During the time that Europe looked more like Harn, the traditions >> turned, from bride-prices (women as a utility) to dowries paid >> to the man by the father of the bride. (Women as a burden!) As far >> as I can recall, Jarin don't exchange money (and are more equal), >> and the Ivinians buy brides, but what are the standards on these >> issues in the monarchies, and the republic? While I've seen nothing specific, my expectation is that dowries would be the correct approach. In the villages, this might not be much more than a fine set of clothing, but as you work your way up the social ladder, things should get bigger. I believe that in medieval times that when some noble women were married, they brought as part of their dowry feudal fiefs. The husband did not actually take possession of the fief but he would typically control it as long the marriage lasted (til death or divorce do us part). If the couple has children, the dowry would devolve upon an appropriate heir, but if the marriage was childless, the fief would revert to the wife's blood kin. With the Harnic system of clans, I would expect things to be a bit different, but not very much. Oh, and I seem to recall reading of feuds that erupted when husbands refused to return a deceased wife's dowry to her family. One other thing to keep in mind regarding village marriages is that the peasantry was not well off and the manor lord typically received something for granting his permission for the marriage. If I remember correctly, the term is merchet (or marchet), and might consist of a fine cow or sheep. >>3) What about funerals? I know that the nobility (and the Khuzdul) >> bury their dead in crypts. I have heard that common people just dig >> a hole in the ground where it suits them and dump dead bodies like >> garbage or something. I think it was in the first HarnLore that an explanation was given for the lack of graveyards on Harn. It basically looked like a cover-up for "oops we forgot", but what the hey. I don't recall seeing any discussion of death ceremonies, except *maybe* something about Ivinians doing something similar to the Viking deathship. If people haven't seen the HL1 article about graveyards, I'll dredge out my copy and post a synopsis here. >> 4) What about changing religion? Is it a big thing? I'm naturally aware >> of the moral implications! How about ceremonies here? I would guess >> that there are some formalities with taking some vow and being >> purified from the bad ideas the subject used to have. Ideas? >Christianity is a 'thou shalt not worship false idols' type religion and as >such medieval Europeans could not accept that other gods existed. As far as >I'm aware nobody questions that all the major gods of Harn exist, the only >question is which one should any individual follow. >This eases tension between the follower of major gods quite a lot (although >should not preclude the possibility of the odd Holy War now and again :). Actually, I would think that Holy Wars would be a little bit more common. Notice that several religions are proscribed in certain parts of Harn, leading to persecution of their members in those regions. This has led to trouble in particular in western Harn with seemingly endless conflict, both low and high-level, between Rethem and Kanday. There is also a class- based Ilvir-Sarajin conflict occurring in Orbaal, and isn't some sort of Agrik-Sarajin trouble brewing in Ivinia? >In most Pantheon type religions (both real world and game) the majority of >the population do not follow one god. Instead they will pray and make offerings >to which ever god is most applicable to there needs at any one time. >Sure a farmer will mostly follow a 'nature god', but that does not preclude him >from praying to a 'healing god' when his son falls ill, or a 'battle god' when >his country is invaded and he marches off to war. In highly pantheistic societies, this would be true, but remember that Harn is limited to 10 biggies, plus their underlings. While there is a general principle for each of the gods, the division of specific function is nowhere near as clear cut as it is in the Roman pantheon (picking one that most have some acquaintance with). Additionally, in most areas, the divisions between gods fairly closely follows the divisions between social classes. Thus, I think it would be an uncommon thing for a serf from eastern Harn to invoke a god other than Peoni. Similarly, nobles would pretty much stick to Larani, merchants to Halea, etc. In Rome, the tendency would have been more along the lines of invoking ten different gods a day, but on Harn, one would invoke one god 90% of the time. >>2) What about marriage outside one faith? >Well in the above scheme most people do not have one faith, they believe in a >'family' of gods so marriage should not be a problem unless the couple have >wildly different personal views (eg. one mostly worships a 'death god' and the >other a 'healing god') in which case they are pretty incompatible to start >with. Given what I just said about gods following class lines, the tendency for inter-church marriages would probably not be very frequent. Otherwise, Andy's comment regarding following either the male or richest person's religion probably applies. Of course, if a proscribed religion is involved, one suspects that someone is going to lie through his/her teeth at the wedding ceremony. >But remember that in many medieval societies 'common-law' marriages would be >more usual, especially among the peasant classes. And in the villages, marriages often would not occur until it was shown that the couple was compatible. This often meant that the bride's blushing cheeks were the result of pregnancy's rosy glow than wedding day jitters. >>During my last visit to Tharda, I sneaked into the temple of the Order of >>the Eight Demons in Shiran. I made some observations about this remarkable >>tower. I am presently compiling my observations. Would anyone out there like >>me to submit that to this list? I'd love to see them. Please post them, either to the mailing list or directly to me. In return, I'm trying to get back to work on the caverns of Zerkar- Dum and the destruction of Zyna. >>Finally, do you think our friends in Vancouver would mind? Why should they? Given the infrequency with which they publish modules, it's expected that GMs will fill in the gaps. And hey, if you can work up a decent adventure idea out of it, submit it to Columbia. I know they're really picky, but maybe you'll strike gold. >>I'm not really sure about copyright laws here. Unless you're groing to sell your idea for money, I wouldn't worry about it. And if you were to charge, I would presume that the module better be good enough that Columbia would be interested in publishing it. rbs -- R.B. Schmunk NASA/Goddard Institute, 2880 Broadway, New York, NY 10025 USA From: Magnus Lycka Subject: Anything new from CG? Has anyone seen any new Harn products lately. The "Curse of Hlen" aught to be released, but it's not in the shops in Goteborg, and as far as I understand there are (as usual) a few other products that aught to have been released. I think the last things to get here (as far as I know) were Battlelust and the Shek-Pvar stuff. -- Name .............: Magnus Lycka, MSc, Design Engineer | All opinions Office Address ...: Saab Ericsson Space AB | expressed here S-405 15 GOTEBORG,SWEDEN | are my own. Office Phone .....: int+46 31 354229 | Fax ..............: int+46 31 359520 | Email ............: Magnus_Lycka@space.combitech.se | From: Magnus Lycka Subject: Agrik temple in Shiran Hi Everybody. Here is what I found last time I went to Shiran. Criticism and praising is equally appreciated. (Although flames seem to be more appropriate I guess :) .) I hope that some of you will have ideas for changes and improvements. I have some floorplans to of course, but it's a bit difficoult to get them into a text file. But actually there is an attempt to do just this in the end of the file. Not very detailed, but a help to present an idea... I also have this as a MS Word for Windows file. I suppose I can share that in some suitable format when I am finished with it. Yes, and another thing. I didn't get time to fill in all the names I think should be included. If you don't have a lot of other things to do, feel free to replace my "xxx of yyy" with more suitable names, and of course also some background info. Well here we go: +------------------------------------------------------+ | The Shiran temple of The Order of the Eight Demons | +------------------------------------------------------+ as observed by Close-Eye, a casual visitor from Terra. This description assumes that the reader knows the city of Shiran and the religious practices of the agrikan church fairly well. For those who don't, I have enclosed an Agrik-related glossary in the end. This is the HQ for the Order of the Eight Demons. This female order was established in the year 714TR when it split from the order of Herpa the Mace. It took over this temple and rebuilt it considerably to fit the somewhat different doctrine of its Senecharil. The people in the temple The Senesharil of the order, Merele of Kantar resides in the temple. With her, she also has a trusted agnichari, as a servant and companion. GM notes: [This young woman was especially chosen for this purpose among the agnichari of XXX, in the western parts of Tharda. She is not allowed to have any contact with anybody except Merele and the Markithra. This is a precautionary measure, to prevent her from being recruited as a spy. There is also a woman with special telepatic abilities here, who keeps constant contact with her twin sister who is located in the orders holding in Kelmeinar. This gives the Senecharil a unique means of instant communication with the western holdings of the order. This woman is also kept as isolated from the rest of the people in the temple as possible.] Mereles Markithra xxx of yyy also resides in the temple, also she with a trusted agnichari. The temple is run by its Viriahn, xxx of yyy. Under her, she has her eight Aperani, and their respective Heruchai. There is also approximately forty agnichari in the temple, assigned to various duties. Most of these people are described in more detail in the description of their respective quarters. There is a lot of intrigue between the masters. One of the most important activities for the masters in an agrican temple is to recruit spies among the people close to the other masters. The fighting order of the Cohorts of Gashang is tied to the Order of the Eight Demons. The temple garrison is led by a Meketa called xxx of yyy. He has a High Guard company, consisting of a Telmen, a Dotelen, and twenty riding Haragki. The high guard is a mobile force that spreads horror, and pillages as much as it can without anoying the authoraties. Thus it mostly attacks small settlements of wild tribes, remote villages and parties without support from the establishment, such as ilviran pilgrims. He also has a Low Guard. This consists of a Telmen, a Dotelen, four Ainlaumaks and sixteen Laumaks. Their prime mission is to guard the temple, although it happens that they go on missions with the High Guard, as the priests are fairly capable of protecting themselves... There is also a reserve, that can be mobilized if need be. The temple is an octagonal buiding, consisting of eight floors. Two of the floors are below ground. The building is almost 120' in diameter, and most floors are very similar to the ground floor of the other agrican temple in Shiran, adjoining the Pamesani arena. Generally, there are eight rooms along the outer walls of the building. (In N, NW, W, SW, S, SE, E, and NE.) In the middle of the building, three is usually a large chamber with a diameter of around 70'. In the middle of this chamber is the flaming pit. It is a 24' octagonal hole, leading down to a big fire in the lowest floor. All windows and doors in the building are octagonal and amber in colour. On the ground floor and first floor, the windows are barred. Much of the interior is painted in orange or black. The lower cellar floor This floor is dominated by a big fireplace in the middle. There are 32 pillars here to support the building. As this is fairly close to the groundwater level, the peripheral parts of this level are moist, and the air is steamy as in a sauna, but more smoky... Large quantities of wood are stored here, and the fire is constantly burning. The stairs in the south leads eastward to... The upper cellar floor N, NW, W and SW: prison cells. NE and S: Animal cells. These are not used very often. E there is a storage room with torture tools of various kinds. Center: Here is a preparation chamber, where sacrifice preparations and torture training takes place. The fire in the middle is isolated by a brick wall on this floor, but the brick is hot enough to cause severe burns to prisoners being chained to it, and there are openings that can be used for heating branding irons etc. There are eight stone benches, 8' by 4', in this chamber, and 24 supportive pillars. On the walls, pillars and benches, there are a lot of iron loops to attach chains or ropes to restrain victims in various ways. SE: Stairs, leading down in W and leading up in N to.. The ground floor W and S: dormitories for the agnichari with 20 beds each. N: The kitchen, which has a door to the garden. NW: Dining hall. SW: The main entrance. There is also a guard room here. NE: Office of Apervisha, master of maintenance. SE: Chambers of Apervisha xxxxxxx of yyyyyy and the Apervishaherushai. The four Heruchai are a) responsible for the ground floor kitchen where food is prepared for the angichari and laumak (and possibly for prisoners), b) responsible for the second floor kitchen where food is prepared for higher ranking soldiers, priestesses and possible guests, c) responsible for cleaning and repairs and d) responsible for the fire. (This mainly means aquiring wood and seeing that the fire is lit between ceremonies. The ceremonial fire and the pyrotechnical effects used during the ceremonies are the responsibilities of the respective discipline masters.) GM notes: [The Apervisha is the least ambitious of the Aperani. She is content with her position, her aim is to keep it and enjoy it. She tries to avoid taking sides in the plotting and make everyone - primarily herself - as satisfied as possible. There are often orgies in this chamber, there is usually at least one agnichari - and sometimes a soldier - in each bed. Some of the other Aperani have expressed their dislike, primarily for the lack of pain in her "private ceremonies". They seem to think that she could as well be in the next temple to the south... (The order of the Silken Voice resides there.)] Center: The first ritual chamber. This is where all public lay masses are held, and the furthest a layman gets without special favours (read donations). It is decorated in orange and black, and equipped with a funt, a sacrificial altar, and the fuming pit. Otherwise, there are no artifacts. There are also eight supportive pillars here, 24' from the center of the building. E: A stairway, leading down in the south, and if you go north, you get to... The first floor Center: Gallery overlooking the first ritual chamber. From a ritual standpoint, it is part of the first chamber, and mainly used by non- participating priests and Terahni during mass in the first chamber. The octagonal opening in the middle ends by the pillars, 24' from the center of the temple. N: Council chamber. NW: Archives, office of Apersuphur. W: Treasury, office of Aperhelis. SW - Office of Aperalis, master of acolytes. S - Chambers for Aperalis, xxx of yyy, Master of Acolytes, and her two Aperalisheruchai, who assist her in training the agnichari. GM notes: [They make a point in keeping a distance to the acolytes, so no agnichari are ever admitted into this chamber. As the Aperalis has a great deal to say about nomination of Heruchai, she has used this to get lietenants she can trust. None the less, they are both subject to pressure from the other Aperani to inform on their master. The Aperalis is a very ambitious person, she supports the Aperagris, hoping to get that title for herself if the Aperagris becomes Viriahn. Having a lot of contact with the agnichari, and having a say about all Heruchai appointments, she has a lot of spies in the temple. Her best spies are rewarded with promotions, and by assigning other acolytes to give them sexual services.] SE: Chambers for Aperhanar, xxxxxx of yyyyyy, Master of Low Discipline, and her two Aperhanarheruchai. GM notes: [The Aperhanar performs most ceremonies in the first chamber (lay ceremonies and daily ceremonies for the acolytes) and some of the private ceremonies on the second floor. When "performing" in the first chamber, one of her heruchai takes care of the fire on the lower cellar level, and the other administers other "special effects", usually by throwing down various powders in the pit from the open area between the 4th and 5th ritual chamber and the pit. (This area can be entered from a trapdoor in the room below.) There is usually also a few agnichari assisting in the first ritual chamber.] In NE there is a stairway which leads further up to... The second floor This floor is different from all the others. It consists of four smaller octagons, serving as ritual chambers. The stairs reach this floor in the north, and a door to the left leads you via a corridor (left again) and another door (left again) to another set of stairs that go further up. Another door straight ahead opens in to... NNW: The second ritual chamber. This is the first chamber for private worship. It is adorned with weapons, shields and armour. There is also a funt, an altar and a fireplace in the chamber. In the SW wall there is a door leading to... An irregular room with another door in the south leading to... WSW: The third ritual chamber. This room has a V'hir depicted on each wall. There is also a funt, an altar and a fireplace in the chamber. In the SE wall there is a door leading to... An irregular room with another door in the east leading to... SSE: The fourth ritual chamber. This room has the Demon Pameshlu the Insatiable depicted in various situations on each wall. There is also a funt, an altar and a fireplace in the chamber. In the NE wall there is a door leading to... An irregular room with another door in the north leading to... ENE: The fifth ritual chamber. This room has Agrik depicted in various situations on seven walls. His different aspects, as "Lord of the Four Horsemen", "Master of the V'hir", "Immortal Warlord of Balgashang", "Breeder of Plague, Squallor and Decay", "The Reasonless Reaper", "Tyrant of the Foul Chambers" and "He Who Knows the Ten Thousand Ways" are shown. The last wall displays a sea of flames. There is also a funt, an altar and a fireplace in the chamber. GM notes: [It is said that Agrik will appear in the flames in the wall facing west, during very special occations. In fact, I think this is fixed by some kind of hoax. I'm still not certain. Ideas??? I haven't decided if I want any magicians in the temple of not. A Peleahn Shek- Pvar would naturally be suitable for a lot of spectacular fire- effects...] In the N wall there is a door, after which there is a door to the left (to stairs down) and straight on, there is a set of stairs leading up to... The third floor Center: The sixth ritual chamber. It looks much like the ground floor, but there is a 1' wide stone bridge straight over the pit in the center of the room. It goes from SW to NE. Battle scenes with Agrik warriors slaying Larani warriors are painted on all walls. This is where the Middle Ceremonies are held by the Aperterahn, for the Terahni. NW: Kitchen. W: Dining room. SW and S: Dormitories for the High Guard. SE: Dormitories for the Low Guard. E: Chambers for the Telmen Sir xxx yyyy and the two Dotelen, Sir xxx yyy and Sir xxx yyy. NE: Chambers for the Meketa, Sir xxx yyy. N - a stairway leading up in the west to... The fourth floor Center: The seventh ritual chamber. This chamber is somewhat smaller than the first, allowing for bigger rooms along the walls. The chamber has recently been decorated with pictures along the walls that depict Pameshlu and the V'hir slaying the saints of Larani, and there is a very dominating picture of Agrik raping and killing a chained, tortured Larani (very slowly we imagine). GM note: [The rituals here do very, very seldom admit lay worshippers. If they do, we are talking about politically very important people. All rituals here are performed by the Aperagris or Viriahn, and usually only the Virahn, Aperani and some of the heruchai are allowed to attend.] W: Chamber of Aperhelis, xxx of yyy, Master of Treasures, and the Aperhelisherucha, and chamber of Apersuphur, xxx of yyy, Master of Archives, and the Apersuphurherusha. SW: Office and chambers of Aperterahn, xxx of yyy, Master of Middle Discipline, and the Aperterahnherucha. S: Office and chambers of Aperahkai, xxx of yyy, Master of Propagation, and the two Aperahkaiheruchai. SE: Office of Aperagris, xxx of yyy, Master of High Discipline. E: Chambers of Aperagris and the Aperagrisherucha. NE: Office of Viriahn, xxx of yyy ,High Priestess. N: Chambers of Viriahn. NW - a stairway leading up in the south to... The fifth floor This floor is off limits for almost everybody. It is reserved for the central authoroties of the Order of The Eight Demons. Food it put on a tray ot the top of the stairs and fetced by one of the two agnichari who live on this floor. Center: The Eighth Ritual Chamber. All ceremonies here are performed by the Senesharil of the order, Merele of Kantar. GM notes: [This chamber is seldom visited by anybody except the five people who live on this floor, and for the present, a painter who is decorating the walls. It is sometimes visited by V'hir, and other strange creatures. Yes, and I forgot, it is regularly visited by poor people who are forced to leave the quick way - down the pit. The walls will soon be decorated with the beautiful things that will happen when Larani is dead and the balance between the gods has been destroyed. Each wall will show Agrik disposing of another god... For obvious reasons (read the Shiran article in Son of Cities (?)) Merele takes special pleasure in seeing how the destruction and final humiliation of Halea is developing on the south wall. The painter knows very well that he will never be allowed to leave this chamber, but he has been promised that his wife and children will be tortured slowly if he doesn't satisfy Merele. He once tried to escape, and that cost him his eldest son.] W: A set of stairs leading down, and a table where things are put that are to be brought in on this level or down to the kitchen etc. There are also two guards here at all time. They never pass the door in to the ritual chamber. SW: This chamber houses a gloomy young woman called xxx of yyy. GM notes: [This is the telepath who communicates with her twin sister in Kelmeinar. She is never allowed out of this room (and her sister is never allowed to leave her room), and the only thing that makes them go on living is the comfort they give each other. They are sixteen years old, and they have been doing this and nothing else for five years now.] S: Guestroom. It has never been used since the order was founded in year 714TR, but it is intended for a visiting Cardinal, Primate, or sometn4hing like that. (I just realize that this is the first guest/spare room in the entire temple so far...) SE: Chambers of xxx of yyy, Markithra and her Agnichari servant. GM note: [This servant is brought in to Merele each evening to give a detailed report of what the Markithra has done during that day. This is the only time she is allowed to lose sight of her mistress. Merele trusts no one.] E: Council chamber. NE: Chamber of Merele of Kantar, Senesharil, and her trusted Agnichari servant. N: Mereles Office. NW: Central Archive for the order. Glossary Demon Pameshlu the Insatiable. He is Agrik's chief underling. He is the lord of frenzy and excess, and his appetite for blood is unriva1led. The V'hir. The best known of the semi-divine servants of Agrikare the Eight Demons known as the V'hir. Senesharil (Clerical Grandmastes) The political and inspirational leader of the order. Markithra (Deputy Grandmaster) If the Senesharil is busy with other concerns, his deputy substitutes for him. In large orders, there may be several deputies. Viriahn (High Priest) The High Priest is the master of the temple. Aperani [Masters] There are usually eight masters, each with his own area of concern. Aperalis (Master of Acolytes) Responsible for training apprentice priests. Apervisha (Master of Maintenance) The master reponsible for the daily running of the kitchen, cleaning, etc. Aperphelis (Master of Treasures) Responsible for the temple's wealth and special artifacts. Apersuphur (Master of Archives) The master in charge of the temple records. Aperahkai (Master of Propagation) The master responsible for the temple's relation with the community. Aperagris (Master of the High Discipline) The priest who leads most rituals of the High Discipline. Aperterahn (Master of the Middle Discipline) The master in charge of relations with the Terahni. Aperhanar (Master of the Low Discipline) The priest who usually leads the "open" ceremonies and deals with most lay supplicants The Heruchai (Lietenants) They rank between acolyte and master and are assigned to one of the Aperani. A lieutenant of the Aperterahn would be called an Aperterahn- herucha, for example. The Agnichari (Acolytes) These are usually recruited at the age of sixteen to twenty, by the Master of High Discipline or the Master of Acolytes, from the laity or Terahni, but the process is open to interference from any Aperani. Meketa (High Commander) The commander of an independent chapter house or temple guard. Telmen (Commander) A "knight-commander" of an order. Telmen are subordinate to the Meketa. Dotelen (Subcommander) A deputy Telmen. These are appointed over small units and to assist the Telmen. Haragki (Knight) A noble member of the order. These "knights" rank below the preceding officers and above any commonality. Laumak (Soldier) A member of the commonality of the order. These are warriors of (otherwise) low social status. There may be corporals (Ainlaumaks) and sergeants (T'kelans), but officers in Agrikan fighting orders are always noble. Honorary Status Any of the four preceding ranks may have their titles prefixed with the term "Anas-", indicative of an honourary or part time status. Scenario Ideas Some Ilviran pilgrims have been captured by the Cohorts of Gashang and brought to the temple. They are to be sacrificed on an appropriate agrikan holiday. Rescue them! The PCs themselves might be captured. Escape! The temple has aquired some Laranian relic that must be returned to the pollowers of the Lady of Paladins. Fetch it! There is an ongoning conflict between the Senesharil Merele of Kantar and ?????, ????? (haven't got that name in my head) of the Order of the Silken Voice, who is the prime political force in Shiran. The players might be recruited by ??? to hurt Merele in some way... Of course, if the players are worshippers of Agrik, a number of other ideas comes to mind. Believe it or not... Floorplans ------------------- / \ / \ Most levels look something like / \ / \ this. (The walls aren't really / \ / \ zig-zag, but try to do it better /__ \___________/ __\ yourself in a textfile). The | \__ / \ __/ | exeptions from this layout are | \__ / _ \ __/ | lower cellar, 1st floor and second | | / \ | | floor. | | | | | | | _| \_/ |__ | Actually all the rooms along the | ___/ \ / \__ | outer walls are the same size and |___/ \___________/ \___| shape. \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / ------------------- ------------------- / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ /__ \___________/ __\ | \__ / \ __/ | | \__ / ___ \ __/ | | | / \ | | The first floor looks something | | | | | | like this. | _| \ ___ / |__ | | ___/ \ / \__ | That is, the hole in the middle |___/ \___________/ \___| is bigger! \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / ------------------- ---------------- / / \ /______ / \ / \ | | \ / | | \ | |\ / | This is the second floor. | | \______/___ | I know, this didn't turn out | \ / / \ | as symmetrical as it should be, | \_______/___ / \| but with some imagination you | / \ | | should be able to get an idea | / \| | about the 2nd to 5th ritual \ | |\ / chambers. (In reality they are \| | \______/ all the same size.) \ / / \ / / Ops! I just realized, that this is ---------------- upside down, or a mirror-image or something like that. At least north isn't up, but 45 degrees away from that. -- Email ............: dcml@space.combitech.se From: pcrxs@nasagiss.giss.nasa.gov (R.B. Schmunk) Subject: Re: Anything new from CG? >Has anyone seen any new Harn products lately. The last two items that I saw were CASTLES OF ORBAAL and Harnlore 11. But that was early February. >The "Curse of Hlen" aught to be >released When I order COO and HL11, Dalgliesh said CURSE was imminent. I haven't called Columbia in the last few months, though, so I don't know what it's status is. Has anybody else called Columbia lately? rbs -- R.B. Schmunk NASA/Goddard Institute, 2880 Broadway, New York, NY 10025 USA From: satyr@netcom.com (Eric J. Anderson) Subject: Re: Anything new from CG? Hey you silent Harnians... > > >Has anyone seen any new Harn products lately. the last thing out was a Battlelust Roster Card supplement. Prettty bogus, for those of us on autoship. > The last two items that I saw were CASTLES OF ORBAAL and Harnlore 11. But > that was early February. > > >The "Curse of Hlen" aught to be > >released I just talked to Tom Dagliesh today, and asked him about Curse of Hlen, he said that it would be shipping within 4 weeks. I dont know if those are "Harn-weeks" which are roughly equivalent to our Terran lunar cycle...:) So expect it sometime in the next few moons. 4 Yaelahs? or is that 4 Yaelmors? -Eric J. Anderson (new convert to Ars Magica, they publish more stuff!!) (plus Eric Hotz cool harn art... ) -- From: Magnus Lycka Subject: Advice on rescue misson wanted Hi there! The Agrik temple in Shiran has (as you might have guessed) a connection to a campaign that I run presently. My PCs (one fairly well equipped ex-seaman (AB), one locksmith journeyman, one runaway gladiator, one mercenary and one Lyahvi Satia-Mavari) [In other words, 3 fighters, a thief and a magic user :). All fairly novice except the Seaman.] were employed as guards for an Ilviran pilgrimage party headed for Araka-Kalai. These pilgrims were really to meet with others from Orbaal to confere on the problem with sales of Ivashu to the order of the octagonal pit for pamesani games. My original plan was to have the PCs captured by the Cohorts of Gashang and brought into the temple. It turned out that they managed to defeat their opponents, but the majority of the party was taken as prisoners. So, now the PCs are trying to figure out how to rescue the poor Ilvirans. They have spoken to the the master of the fighting order at the Larani temple, and, after having convinced the security mistress at the Halea temple that they had important information, they got a short session with the Halean Archbishop. Both the Laranin and Halean sympathize with the PCs, but no one is willing to stick his/her neck out of course. The PCs have some resources: The Lyahvi Satia-Mavari has the ability of Disembodiment. Although his Astral body has no eyes or ears (I thought a little about this, and decided that the sensory abilities of an astral body are: sensing auras, feeling state (gas, liquid, solid) and temperature (icy, in between, very hot) and psionic abilities as of the HM rules) he might be useful for scouting the temple.He could also be able to take over someones body. (some weak willed guard?) One of the NPCs that didn't get caught is an Ilvir priestess that could possibly convince a bunch of Hru to help (especially concidering the objective of the pilgrims). They could never get into the temple though (to big). She could also perhaps get a few Aklash to block the stairs of the temple, and to distract some people. These are their main resourses, as I see it. I think it's very difficoult for them to succeed anyway if all the people of hte temple are in it. They will have to figure out a way to make the soldiers leave the temple. The priestesses are not easy to handle anyway. Maybe the Haleans could in some way help them to get the Cohorts of Gashang to leave? Another idea would be to try to figure out the plans of the Cohorts so that they know when they are out on pillages with both High and Low Guard. As stated in 'Son of Cities' there is a conflict between Merele (the Senesharil of the order of the Eight Demons) and the Archbishop of Halea. This is the reason, why the haleans would possibly give some assistance to the PCs if they think that they will remain unhurt and if they think that the order of the 8 demons will be damaged. As I see it, the information about the telepatic woman that I wrote about in the description of the temple could be useful to the Haleans. They might even want her eliminated... (I doubt that my players would kill that poor girl though...) Do you have any ideas about all this? I go to Indonesia for 3 weeks from the 25th of July, and we won't play this before that, so you have some time to think... but the Shek-P'var might scout the temple (disembodied) next week, so it would be great if I got suggestions on the people and things in the temple ASAP. Thanks Close-Eye PS A nice ending of this (if they succeed) would be to make the bad ilvirans in Shiran (who trade in the 'holy' Ivashu) to get blamed for the attack on the temple. -- Email ............: dcml@space.combitech.se From: Magnus Lycka Subject: Berserk Hi there, a little question... When a character goes berserk, he gets a bonus on attacks and a penalty on defence. But how do you treat counter attack defence? Bonus or penalty? Counter attacks are definitely offensive, but it seems a bit too good to get bonuses all along if counter attacks are chosen systematically. Ideas? Magnus -- Name .............: Magnus Lycka, MSc, Design Engineer | All opinions Office Address ...: Saab Ericsson Space AB | expressed here S-405 15 GOTEBORG,SWEDEN | are my own. Office Phone .....: int+46 31 354229 | Fax ..............: int+46 31 359520 | Email ............: Magnus_Lycka@space.combitech.se | From: andyr@comm.mot.com (UK478 Andy Ransom) Subject: Re: Berserk Magnus Lycka writes: > When a character goes berserk, he gets a bonus on attacks and a penalty on > defence. But how do you treat counter attack defence? Bonus or penalty? > Counter attacks are definitely offensive, but it seems a bit too good to get > bonuses all along if counter attacks are chosen systematically. Ideas? I'd probably allow counter striking to have the bonus as well, I say probably because I've never seen anybody go berserk in a harn game. This does make being berserk extremely dangerous, but IMHO it should be. The major difficulty in fighting a 'berserker' is that he launches a 'fast and furious' attack, and most normal opponents (ie. anything with a sense for self preservation) will concentrate on defending against the onslaught, thus reducing the effectiveness of their own attacks. Although a berserker character becomes less concerned with his personal saftey, most opponents increased concern balances this out, I've never seen a rules system which allowed for this, but on the whole I'd probably also reduce the opponents attack chance and increase his defense chances while he was facing a berserk attacker. This would only apply to the main targets of the 'berserk rage' at any one time if a second opponent was on the flanks or to the rear of the berserker for example, he would not have this problem, and I'd probably rule that the berserk character had to 'ignore' any attacks coming from these directions. I can't remember the exact rules used in HarnMaster for dealing with berserkers but other ideas for rules which seem reasonable to me include: * either increasing the character Endurance or reducing his Endurance Index, this reduces the chance of him failing a shock roll, and simulates the 'adrenalin rush' that the berserker is experiencing. Alternatively reduce all shock roll by a dice so an E3 roll becomes an E2 roll etc. * Making the Berserker roll to manage to come out of berserk rage, until such time as he suceeds in doing this he will continue to attack something, if all that are left are 'friends' then I'd have him attack them, but maybe make it easier to fight off the effect, once he got to this stage. However being berserk could also mean you carry on fighting even after the 20 enemy reinforcements turn up and the rest of your companions have run away. * awarding a reduced amount of fatigue to a character who is berserk, (perhaps halving them), but once the 'berserk rage' wears off giving out the full total of everything the berserker should have got during the combat. This results in the character taking 1.5 times the fatigue he would have in a normal fight, but most of it is delayed until the fight is over. The above are just some ideas, but however you handle it going berserk should be very dangerous for all involved, and quite possibly unpopular with the berserk characters friends (assuming that they are not all berserkers as well:) ------------------ Andy Ransom andyr@comm.mot.com ------------------ From: Petri Heiramo Subject: Re: Aiming at the head, etc. Hello all I know I haven't been online for two and a half months, so my response can be a bit late. Bear with me. > them get a higher probability to hit, lets say a hand, if they compensate > this with a penalty on EML. I thought that it could be reasonable to allow > then to "move" their hit location x% for a -x% modification to EML. For > example, if they hit someone with an extra -15 % on EML, and wanted to hit the > groin (hit location 85), a hit location roll from 60 (85-15) to 00 (85+15 mod > 100) would suffice to hit the specific bodypart. Is this to easy? Maybe it is > better to only let them move in one direction (60 - 85 would hit). In the first > example a -50 special penalty would allow someont to hit exactly in the spot > he wants to. In the second example, the -50 s.p. would give him a 50% chance > to hit just where he wanted. > Ooops... A little mistake I think. Giving a +-50 bonus for the location roll does not automatically let the character to hit the desired body part. For example, in the case above, hitting groin would require a roll of 85. 85-50=35 or in other words, a roll below 35 does not hit groin. 'Only' 66% chance of hitting. What I used was a bit simplier, but thinking it now it doesn't sound as good as the rule above. If a char desired to hit a specified location, he'd of course have to call it before rolling. I would reduce his chances of hitting by 10 and if he rolled a critical success, he'd have hit the called location. Back to the rule above. The modifications introduced in some other letter sound very good (adjustment to only one direction depending on the size of the opponent and was there others?). I just don't know how do they work in game situation. Never tried. Jours, Petri From: mdabbott@aol.com Subject: looking for a game Is anyone on the list running in or know of a game in the Rhode Island area? I'd love to find a game in my area willing to take in a player or two. Mark From: lrg@cherry.cray.com (Lee Gordon) Subject: Aiming at the head revisited Hello, After seeing the last message about calling strikes, I spent a little time pondering it, and this is what I came up with. I think it is a good idea to be able to be more specific with calling shots, but I'm not sure about the best implementation. This is a brief summary of the ideas posted here and/or my own thoughts. 1a) Allow the PC to determine the penalty percentage used when making the attack. This percentage is then used to increase the range of the desired hit location. Example: A player decides to swing at the groin, and incur a 10% penalty. Upon a successful strike, a roll between 85-10 and 85 on the body location table would hit the groin. 1b) The percentage is used on both sides of the range. Example: A player decides to swing at the groin, and incur a 10% penalty. Upon a successful strike, a roll between 85-10 and 85+10 on the body location table would hit the groin. Something doesn't feel quite right to be about 1a and 1b, although I can't exactly place my finger on it. 2) Allow the PC to determine the location to attack, using the flat penalty for head, arms, and legs attacks. Upon a CS, they hit the area called, else roll. Example: A player decides to swing at the eyes. The player takes a 10% penalty for a head strike. If a CS results, they hit the eyes, otherwise roll randomly. I don't like this because all head strikes will be called as eyes, body as groin, arms as elbows, and legs as knees. 3) As a variant of #1, allow the PC to determine an additional penalty for the called strike. Upon a successful hit, percentage dice are rolled again, and if the result is equal to or under the penalty, the region is hit. With a CS, the range is doubled. If the specific region is not hit, roll on the location chart. Example: A player decides to swing at the head, which draws a normal 10% penalty. In addition, the player chooses to take on an additional 8% penalty and go for the eyes. With a MS, a following roll of 1-8% hits the eyes. With a CS, 1-16% strikes the eyes. Note that if this roll is failed, it is still possible to hit the desired location by rolling it on the location chart. I sort of like this. It reduces some of the math with trying to figure out extended location ranges, and rewards CS's without making them too deadly. 4) Create a penalty based on how much the player wants to expand the location size by. For example, maybe a 5% penalty is incurred for each additional size increment. Example: A player wants to double the thorax region, which is 13% on the body chart (13% may not be correct, I don't have my stuff with me). To increase that region to 26%, they take a 5% penalty. Or, say a player wants to have a 10% chance to hit the groin. Normally that is a 1% location, so it needs to be increased by 9 times, which earns a 45% penalty. This seems a bit more fair than 1a or 1b, but it would involve a ton of math. As I sort of implied at the beginning, I haven't play tested any of this stuff, nor even thought it out that carefully. Any comments on these schemes or any others? -Lee Lee Gordon ATT: 1-612-683-5484 Cray Research, Inc. Fax: 1-612-683-5599 655F Lone Oak Drive Email: lrg@cray.com or Eagan, MN 55121 uunet!cray!lrg From: lrg@cherry.cray.com (Lee Gordon) Subject: Columbia Games now on the Internet - rec.games.board #28062 Hello, I thought I'd forward this to the list, in case some people missed it. Maybe an official invite to the mailing list is in order? In article <28731@mindlink.bc.ca>, a481@mindlink.bc.ca (J.D. Frazer) writes: > Columbia Games, the publishers of Harn, Harnmaster, War of 1812, Napoleon, > Rommel in the Desert, East Front, West Front, Bobby Lee and many other > award winning games and systems may now be contacted through the Internet. > > Questions, complaints and comments about Columbia Games products are > welcomed. In addition to this service, Columbia Games will soon be > reachable at America On Line. > > Any correspondence should be sent to a481@mindlink.bc.ca. I'll do my best > to answer any questions, but anything I'm unfamiliar with will be > redirected to Robin Crossby or Tom Dalgliesh as is appropriate. > > -- > J.D. Frazer, a481@mindlink.bc.ca | Columbia Games Internet Representative > Vancouver, B.C., Canada | Editor of Harnlore -Lee Lee Gordon ATT: 1-612-683-5484 Cray Research, Inc. Fax: 1-612-683-5599 655F Lone Oak Drive Email: lrg@cray.com or Eagan, MN 55121 uunet!cray!lrg From: surman@vortex.lgs.lsu.edu (Michael A. Surman) Subject: Re:Columbia Games now on the Internet - rec.games.board #28062 > I thought I'd forward this to the list, in case some people missed >it. Maybe an official invite to the mailing list is in order? I'll second that motion! Definitely a good idea. It also might generate more discussion on the list! :-) Mike [Ed. note -- J.D. Frazer, the person behind account a481@mindlink.bc.ca, has been a member of the Harn Mailing List, nearly from it's inception. Up until Lee Gordon posted the article saying that account a481@mindlink.bc.ca was a link from the Internet to Columbia Games (at least to their Internet Representative), I didn't know that we had any link at all. So, as to sending an 'official invite' to the Columbia Games Internet Representative, it seems that he already beat you to it, Heeee's Heeeere. -Eric] From: Harry Butler Subject: Spells, Calendars, and Gods Hi, all, I'm new to the list, so forgive me if I raise some questions long dealt with. I have a few questions/comments: 1. In my campaign I have a Jmorvi Shek-Pvar currently working on a spell to open mechanical metal locks (not enchanted locks); the spell would open locks of a complexity level = SI. I'm not sure about assigning a level to this. 3rd seems about right to me, but I'd welcome any other suggestions (and forgive me if there's such a spell in the Jmorvi book, I'm afraid I don't have it yet). 2. On a related topic, does the Jmorvi book have many spells dealing with the other half of their concern (i.e., minerals/stones)? One of my Shek- Pvar developed some spells to work with these, although some are merely diff- erent versions of the metal-spells, and I'd be happy to post them if anyone would like. 3. I know there's a calendar in Gods, which I'm using, but I'd be in- terested in hearing from others about additional festivals they may have added. I'm currently working on a rough martyrology for both Peonian and Laranian saints, with some regional variations, to provide a fuller religious background, and I'd welcome input from others. 4. Is anyone running priests in their current campaigns? I ran one on once, and the player found it OK, but not a terrific time. He's willing to try again, however, and I was wondering what success others had had with PC priests. 5. Final comment/question. Does anyone else think the Harnic "pantheon" seems more a set of conflicting/alternative monotheisms? I'm experimenting with incorporating full-fledged cultural religious groups (by the way, do you think the Molnasians worship Larani?) in such a way that Sarajin may be the dominant Ivinian god, but he's not the only one (I think the demi-god associates are OK as is, but that there's need for more). This will become more important in my campaign, I think, as characters begin to adventure on Lythia proper. Anyhow, comments welcome. Thanks for any comments, etc. Harry Butler hgb1@troi.cc.rochester.edu