From: maillet@paques.cert.fr (Luc Maillet) Subject: Harn combat options OK, this is my first post to the List, so please be indulgent... After having read and practiced ( not much, alas ) the Harnmaster Combat System, I have a few comments and questions : 1) The system is lethal if unarmored, but I found that armor reduces lethality in VERY big ways. Is it just a misunderstanding, or is it normal ? 2) The system stresses defensive diversity ( options ), and that's good. But why should the attacker be limited to a "basic attack" pattern ? And has some- -one designed/thought of offensive options, like basic attack/ feint / quick thrust/ whatever, to put the emphasis on combat options ? 3) rolling attack, defense, localization, damage, and special effects/wound tests makes 5 rolls. Isn't it a bit too much ? Is there any way to make less dice rolls ? 4) What are the IP's ( Injury Points ) losses described at the bottom of the charts ? I thought that Harnmaster had a HitPoints-less combat system... I also have a few questions concerning the various supplements edited by Columbia Games : 1) I, being in France, am far from the big RPG commercial routes :-). Nonethe- -less, I found Castles of Harn ( among other things ). But mine misses some pages ( in fact, instead of the missing pages, there are duplicates of others, which is basically useless ). Is it a generic fault or is it specific ? 2) Are the various States supplements still published/produced ? I can't find them here. 3) I believe there are 8 magical supplements ( Tome of The Shek-Pvar, one book for each of the ways, and Gray Magic ). Do all of them exist, or are they only projects ? ( I own Tome of the Shek-Pvar only... ) That's all for a start. 'Til next season. Redwing. maillet@tls-cs.cert.fr From: Robert Schmunk Subject: Re: Harn Combat Options maillet@paques.cert.fr (Luc Maillet) writes regarding Harn combat options I'll answer a couple of these. > 1) The system is lethal if unarmored, but I found that armor reduces lethality > in VERY big ways. Is it just a misunderstanding, or is it normal ? Probably normal, but it would be helpful to hear something specific. > 3) rolling attack, defense, localization, damage, and special effects/wound > tests makes 5 rolls. Isn't it a bit too much ? Is there any way to make less > dice rolls ? This used to bother me a lot when I first started GMing Harn. For a while, I ignored the injury point roll and just assigned IP equal to the effective impact. I also ignored the attack vs defend class table for a while. I now implement everything, but I have programmed my computer to tell me which roll[s] to do. Not many GMs have that. However, I've also noticed that things go pretty smoothly (decide all the rolls) if the players are also familiar with the rules. The only clean way I know to cut down on the number of rolls would be to just dump the HM combat rules and use the BattleLust rules. I wouldn't do that personally, but others might like it. > 4) What are the IP's ( Injury Points ) losses described at the bottom of the > charts ? I thought that Harnmaster had a HitPoints-less combat system... They're not really "hit points" since losing a certain number of them doesn't mean automatic death, but: 1) each injury point counts toward the character's total physical penalty and toward the Endurance Index modifier. 2) collecting too many (15?) IP on a particular limb renders it useless. > 1) I, being in France, am far from the big RPG commercial routes :-). Nonethe- > -less, I found Castles of Harn ( among other things ). But mine misses some > pages ( in fact, instead of the missing pages, there are duplicates of others, > which is basically useless ). Is it a generic fault or is it specific ? I haven't seen this happen before, but I think I can remember someone else complaining about a bad module. You could probably send a letter to Columbia and get a replacement. It could take a while though. > 2) Are the various States supplements still published/produced ? I can't find > them here. They have stopped doing *new* kingdom supplements but periodically reissue the old ones when they run out. The last I heard, the only Harnic kingdom not available was Rethem, but that was last summer. What they are doing now is regional modules plus material like Castles. However, the regional modules are coming out *very* slowly. The last one was Shorkyne, about 18 months ago. > 3) I believe there are 8 magical supplements ( Tome of The Shek-Pvar, one book > for each of the ways, and Gray Magic ). Do all of them exist, or are they only > projects ? That's all of them, and they're all out as of last December. rbs -- Robert B. Schmunk SPAC, Rice Univ, Box 1892, Houston, TX 77251 USA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Loyalty was a great thing, but no lieutenants should be forced to choose between their leader and a circus with elephants. --Neil Gaiman & Terry Pratchett, GOOD OMENS From: Sean Matheis Subject: Re: Harn Combat Options On Wed, 16 Dec 1992, Luc Maillet wrote: > From: maillet@paques.cert.fr (Luc Maillet) > Subject: Harn combat options > > > OK, this is my first post to the List, so please be indulgent... > > After having read and practiced ( not much, alas ) the Harnmaster Combat System, > I have a few comments and questions : Congratulations on receiving a wonderful system to game in! > > 1) The system is lethal if unarmored, but I found that armor reduces lethality > in VERY big ways. Is it just a misunderstanding, or is it normal ? I think you'll find that its not combat that's "lethal", but the afteraffects of combat. Yes, armour can be a major factor, but if your Endurance stinks to high Ivinia, it doesn't really matter. > 4) What are the IP's ( Injury Points ) losses described at the bottom of the > charts ? I thought that Harnmaster had a HitPoints-less combat system... They're not "hit points" per se, but a way to keep track of your injuries. You die when you IP-index exceeds your END, along w/ some other factors (I haven't played in a while...most people die from shock or infection before the IP-index thing anyways....) > > I also have a few questions concerning the various supplements edited by > Columbia Games : > > 1) I, being in France, am far from the big RPG commercial routes :-). Nonethe- > -less, I found Castles of Harn ( among other things ). But mine misses some > pages ( in fact, instead of the missing pages, there are duplicates of others, > which is basically useless ). Is it a generic fault or is it specific ? > > 2) Are the various States supplements still published/produced ? I can't find > them here. > > 3) I believe there are 8 magical supplements ( Tome of The Shek-Pvar, one book > for each of the ways, and Gray Magic ). Do all of them exist, or are they only > projects ? ( I own Tome of the Shek-Pvar only... ) Earlier this year (or at the end of last year) all of the books for each Shek-Pvar 'classes' were released. As with all Columbia Games products, its hard to get them, regardless of your location. Some just have harder times. > > That's all for a start. 'Til next season. > > Redwing. Enjoy Sean ccmsean@othello.ucdavis.edu From: Klaus Ole Kristiansen Subject: Re: Harn Combat Options Robert Schmunk writes: Subject: Re: Harn Combat Options maillet@paques.cert.fr (Luc Maillet) writes regarding Harn combat options I'll answer a couple of these. > 4)What are the IP's (Injury Points) losses described at the bottom of the > charts ? I thought that Harnmaster had a HitPoints-less combat system... They're not really "hit points" since losing a certain number of them doesn't mean automatic death, but: 1) each injury point counts toward the character's total physical penalty and toward the Endurance Index modifier. 2) collecting too many (15?) IP on a particular limb renders it useless. Isn't that 15 points from a single wound? I'll look it up. 3) The "size" of a wound in IPs affects the time it takes for it to heal Sean Matheis writes: They're not "hit points" per se, but a way to keep track of your injuries. You die when you IP-index exceeds your END, along w/ some other factors That must be a house rule. There is nothing it this in Harnmaster. Is it from Battlelust? Klaus O K From: Robert Schmunk Subject: Re: Harn Combat Options > From: Klaus Ole Kristiansen > > > 4)What are the IP's (Injury Points) losses described at the bottom of the > > charts ? > > 2) collecting too many (15?) IP on a particular limb renders it useless. > > Isn't that 15 points from a single wound? I'll look it up. You're right. Combat 8, bottom of left hand column it states that any single injury greater than 15 IP renders the limb useless. But back to Luc's original question: At the top of the left hand column on Combat 8, the first two paragraphs give a pretty clear description of IPs. > They're not "hit points" per se, but a way to keep track of your injuries. > You die when you IP-index exceeds your END, along w/ some other factors > > That must be a house rule. There is nothing it this in Harnmaster. > Is it from Battlelust? I don't see it in BattleLust either. Perhaps he's referring it to the bleeding rule. Ie., when IP from bleeding (only) exceed 2 x END, the character dies. rbs -- Robert B. Schmunk SPAC, Rice Univ, Box 1892, Houston, TX 77251 USA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Loyalty was a great thing, but no lieutenants should be forced to choose between their leader and a circus with elephants. --Neil Gaiman & Terry Pratchett, GOOD OMENS From: Petri Heiramo Subject: Harn Combat Dear 'Harners' It's good to see some interesting stuff under discussion. I've no great contributions to the questions roused, but would like to comment on some of my own experiences with the combat system. Overall I think it's a great one, but not perfect. One of my players lost some interest to the system after the quarrel he shot at his opponent's head (after rolling a CS) bounced off the chain helmet he was wearing (furthermore, he surprised his opponent) with only little damage. True, the opponent had an endurance of 18, but even then. After that I reconsidered the system and decided to add a feature of my own: Stun. Stun may happen anytime the target is required to roll against shock. If he succeeds to resist the shock, he has to roll against stun with two added dice. If he succeeds even that he is out of danger. However if he fails the roll, he loses the actions for his turn (be that on the same round or on the next one). During his next turn (the one he lost his action for) he may attempt to recover from the stun by rolling again against the stun, but this time with one less dice. For every turn thereafter the number of dice is reduced by one until he succeeds to recover. An example: Say you are hit by a sword and in addition to other damage you are required to roll against shock by 4 dice. You make that roll, but then you must roll against stun with 6 dice! Nope, no way with your endurance of 13. So into stun you go. During the next turn you may attempt the roll with 5 dice, but you won't make it (not because it would be impossible, but I just said so). One more turn under stun. Next turn and 'only' 4 dice. This time you'll make it (I'll grant that to you) and you're out of stun and may act on your next turn. When you're under stun, you cannot attack effectively (the tries you might wanna make are considered ineffectual). You may dodge or block, however , with half your skill. Or move away with half speed. All other actions should be considered on the same basis, I'm not gonna give a detailed actions allowed for you here. The rulebook states that a moving archery target is dodging automatic- ally even when not aware of the attack. But think of it, is a walking, surprised target really THAT hard to hit? I think not (given the right of opinion). Therefore I decreed that a such a target dodges with only half of his skill. A running target would still be full dodge, and of course target who is aware of your attack would be, too. It's just that you can predict the movement of a walking target with quite some precision and adjust your aim correspondingly. By the way, if someone is interested in dragon skin rules (and do not want to create them himself, though I prefer it that way myself), I might write them on this board. Just let me know. I think the rule which dictated that you die when your IP index equals your endurance you die is a good one. Harnmaster doesn't tell anywhere (not that i've found) when your character dies out of wounds (out of bleeding yes). After all, you will die when punished enough, even without bleeding that much. And if it's not in the rulebook, who cares. Has anyone got any 'extended' (self-tailored, sensible) rules? I would be interested to know for I'm always ready to finetune my game. Okay, that's for the night. Merry Christmas to you all (Season's Greetings to all those not celebrating the Christmas) and Happy New Year 1993. Hope to hear of you soon. Petri Heiramo heiramo@lut.fi "The Moon IS of cheese! I know, I've been there!" -Willowwhisper, kender From: Robert Schmunk Subject: Re: Harn Combat > I think the rule which dictated that you die when your IP index > equals your endurance you die is a good one. Harnmaster doesn't tell anywhere > (not that i've found) when your character dies out of wounds (out of bleeding > yes). After all, you will die when punished enough, even without bleeding > that much. By IP index I assume you mean IP / 10. In which case why bother with this death rule? If IP/10 > Endurance, then the Endurance Index, (IP+FP)/10), is also greater than Endurance, and the character will fail *any* Shock roll he is required to make and be knocked unconscious. When the character then recovers from unconsciousness, he'll automatically go into shock. Thus, while the character ay escape death, you can forget about playing him for a while. rbs -- Robert B. Schmunk SPAC, Rice Univ, Box 1892, Houston, TX 77251 USA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [...] the world is a complex and subtle place, and not all of its mysteries are cracked open and devoured. --Carsten Stroud, LIZARDSKIN From: e90mhg@efd.lth.se (Mikael Hegardt) Subject: Re: Harn Combat I haven't looked in my book lately, but the Injury Table may produce STUN result , can't it ? And by the way, isn't it reasonable that a target, which is walking and sursprised should shoose an "ignore" instead of Dodge? God Jul och gott nytt år or Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! from Mikael Hegardt PS Sorry about the bad english DS From: Petri Heiramo Subject: Re: Harn Combat >> I think the rule which dictated that you die when your IP index >>equals your endurance you die is a good one. Harnmaster doesn't tell anywhere >>(not that i've found) when your character dies out of wounds (out of bleeding >>yes). After all, you will die when punished enough, even without bleeding >>that much. > > By IP index I assume you mean IP / 10. In which case why bother with this > death rule? If IP/10 > Endurance, then the Endurance Index, (IP+FP)/10), > is also greater than Endurance, and the character will fail *any* Shock > roll he is required to make and be knocked unconscious. When the character > then recovers from unconsciousness, he'll automatically go into shock. > Thus, while the character ay escape death, you can forget about playing > him for a while. Yes, in a sense you're right, but I don't consider your suggestion suitable for my style of GMing. If you pound some someone into a bloody pulp, he'll die for sure. You might want to give him a minute or two before the final go just in case somebody wants to use some miracle magic on the victim, but no patient can reasonably survive such treatment. After all, an average of 110-120 IP is quite some damage. He has so many cuts and bruises in himself that he will bleed himself to death whether externally or internally even without having any major bleeds. Better kill him off (I am a bit merciless, okay). And yes, by IP index I mean IP divided by 10. The index feature is quite handy actually. It's quite good for measuring many things. But you all know that already, so why am I repeating it. And let's add a small question to the end of this letter. Think of this: You have a club. It has a blut impact of 4 (was it?). Now, you want to add a few features to your club (namely four nails hit through the hitting end). How would you (this especially for the experienced GM's) treat these nails andthe punctures they cause while still retaining the impressing qualities of the club? I did think of some ways, but none seems very good. One was that you add one point to blunt impact, but that alone doesn't sound very good since it doesn't generate any punctures. Neither does trying to treat the features separately. Would retrospective selection be good (with this I mean that after checking the hit location and armour protection you take the feature which causes more severe damage and apply it to the target. In that case what would be a reasonable point value for the club?) option to deal with this or what? Furthermore, do you think it a good idea to apply this to other weapons with similar qualities (like morningstar)? Please comment. And let's get some more talk on this mailing list. Yours, Petri Heiramo From: e90mhg@efd.lth.se (Mikael Hegardt) Subject: Spells [Please note: respond to Mikael directly, don't just hit 'r'eply, and assume that the message gets back to him automatically. Please, if you are interested in getting this, contact Mikael directly at the address below. Thanks. -ETP] During 1992 there has been several postings with spells, mostly from Robert Schmunk. During my Christmas holiday I have, for my own pleasure, tried to collect all of the spells and make a "new" spelltome out of it. It resembles Columbia Games own products, and is made in PageMaker. Anyone interested in a copy just mail me. As I wrote, this was done only for my own pleasure, and not for commercial use. Mikael Hegardt, e90mhg@efd.lth.se . From: surman@vortex.lgs.lsu.edu (Michael A. Surman) Subject: Re: Harn Combat Petri Heiramo writes: >You have a club. It has a blunt impact of 4 (was it?). Now, you want >to add a few features to your club (namely four nails hit through >the hitting end)... There are variants of maces and morningstars that have edges or points. And if I remember correctly the combat tables already take this into account. So in that case the tables could be used as is. However, if the modifications to the club are more significant, such as a couple of 12" spikes, then I'd use it as a puncture/piercing weapon instead of a bashing weapon. The modifications in this case would alter the weapon characteristics. Mike From: Robert Schmunk Subject: Re: Harn Combat In response to a question by Petri Heiramo, I earlier said: > > By IP index I assume you mean IP / 10. In which case why bother with this > > death rule? If IP/10 > Endurance, then the Endurance Index, (IP+FP)/10), > > is also greater than Endurance, and the character will fail *any* Shock > > roll he is required to make and be knocked unconscious. When the character > > then recovers from unconsciousness, he'll automatically go into shock. > > Thus, while the character ay escape death, you can forget about playing > > him for a while. Of course, much of this particular argument is useless speculation anyway. If a character has as many IP as I describe, then his physical penalty will be so large that his ability to defend himself will be virtually nonexistent. HarnMaster being what it is, a self-respecting player would have made this character [attempt to] flee the battle long ago. -- Robert B. Schmunk SPAC, Rice Univ, Box 1892, Houston, TX 77251 USA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [...] the world is a complex and subtle place, and not all of its mysteries are cracked open and devoured. --Carsten Stroud, LIZARDSKIN From: lrg@carina.cray.com (Lee R. Gordon) Subject: Re: Harn Combat > From: Robert Schmunk > Subject: Re: Harn Combat > > In response to a question by Petri Heiramo, I earlier said: > > > > By IP index I assume you mean IP / 10. In which case why bother with this > > > death rule? If IP/10 > Endurance, then the Endurance Index, (IP+FP)/10), > > > is also greater than Endurance, and the character will fail *any* Shock > > > roll he is required to make and be knocked unconscious. When the character > > > then recovers from unconsciousness, he'll automatically go into shock. > > > Thus, while the character ay escape death, you can forget about playing > > > him for a while. > > Of course, much of this particular argument is useless > speculation anyway. If a character has as many IP as I describe, > then his physical penalty will be so large that his ability > to defend himself will be virtually nonexistent. HarnMaster > being what it is, a self-respecting player would have made this > character [attempt to] flee the battle long ago. The only time I've seen a counter-example to this is when combat involves mages. A good example is area spells which affect each exposed location. There have been a few times where I have had a completely uninjured character get nuked by a wall of flame, which caused minor burns on all locations on one side of the body. You can chalk up 100 IP quickly without many E rolls. It seems that magic can always be a wildcard in Harn (and any other gaming environment, I guess). Lee Gordon ATT: 1-612-683-3100 Cray Research, Inc. Fax: 1-612-683-3099 655E Lone Oak Drive Email: lrg@cray.com or Eagan, MN 55121 uunet!cray!lrg From: Robert Schmunk Subject: Kethira's orbit Here's an offbeat topic: I'm working on yet another improvement for the Macintosh Harnic weather generator, this time the calculation of sunrise/sunset times. This requires information about the planetary (Kethiran) orbit and so I turned to my copies of HarnWorld and of the Astrology (grrr!) article. The necessary data are there, except for two very important values, namely: eccentricity - which describes how elliptical the orbit is, argument of perihelion - which gives the angle between perihelion and the spring equinox (you may not know that perihelion for Earth occurs in late December). It may be that Kethira's orbit is perfectly circular, which makes the calculation of sunrise/sunset pretty easy, but I'd like to be sure. Besides, easy equals boring. My question is then: have any of you run across this data anywhere? BTW, I'll have to check my figures again, but I believe there is an error in the length of the Kethiran year listed in both sources I mention above. They state it is 360.0011 days, but from the example provided, I calculate that it should be 360.00090 days. Trivial perhaps, but it's one of those things that gets under my skin. Thanks... rbs -- Robert B. Schmunk SPAC, Rice Univ, Box 1892, Houston, TX 77251 USA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [He] turned back to the window and the opaque Houston sky. "You know, there isn't anything wrong with this town that a couple of really good hurricanes couldn't fix." --Peter Gent, THE FRANCHISE From: Petri Heiramo Subject: Re: Harn Combat I wrote... > >You have a club. It has a blunt impact of 4 (was it?). Now, you want > >to add a few features to your club (namely four nails hit through > >the hitting end)... and Mike answered... > There are variants of maces and morningstars that have edges or > points. And if I remember correctly the combat tables already take > this into account. So in that case the tables could be used as is. > However, if the modifications to the club are more significant, such > as a couple of 12" spikes, then I'd use it as a puncture/piercing > weapon instead of a bashing weapon. The modifications in this case > would alter the weapon characteristics. So you mean that I should use morningstar table? But that doesn't actually answer the problem I mentioned later in my letter. If the nails are not long enough to hamper the impressing qualities of the club, but long enough to cause visible punctures (say inch long nails)? The same case with the morning- star. The blunt quality of morningstar is hidden below the crust of spikes. Any other people have any advice? Yours Petri Heiramo From: Petri Heiramo Subject: Re: Spells Mikael Hegardt wrote... > Anyone interested in a copy just mail me. As I wrote, this was done > only for my own pleasure, and not for commercial use. I assume You won't spread them around for pleasure. Therefore, how much would you like to have to cover the expenses caused by postage, packing and copying the product? How many pages it has? Amount of spells? Anything else we might like to know about? Delivery? Yours, Petri Heiramo From: stevew@epunix.sussex.ac.uk Subject: Fatigue in Battlelust and Harnmaster. Dear All, Well this is the first time I have been stimulated enough to actually make a posting to this group so here are a couple of posers: Fatigue in Battlelust. In the recently released Battlelust rules there is the promise of some advanced rules covering the expenditure of fatigue by the units involved in the mass-combat. However a thorough search of the advanced section later, and i can't find a single syllable dedicated to this task! Any ideas? Fatigue in Harnmaster. Whilst there are fatigue rules for the frenetic activity that occurs in combat there is no concept of "general fatigue". That is the fatigue that would accrue as a function of normal activity, or from a hike, yomp, or march. It would be nice, we thought in our roleplaying group, to have a simp0le mechanic to overcome this defecit. One idea is to simply have a rate of expenditure according to what activity is beimng performed - eg. for nothing (A bit of walking from one room to another and so forth) a fatigue loss of 1fp/hour, say 2fp/hour for walking and so forth. The receovery of these general fatigue points would require sleep, say 1/3rd of endurance recovered per hour of sleep. Thus if a group sustains a forced march and maintains watches then we can simulate the effects of exhaustion through lack of sleep and forced exercise. The idea is a little rough and ready and has yet to be playtested while we finalise it, I'd like to hear any comments other HM Gms might have. Steve Williams (stevew@uk.ac.sussex.epunix) From: e90mhg@efd.lth.se (Mikael Hegardt) Subject: Psionics I've seen som discussion on the battlesystem lately, and though I'd go fo something else. The Harnmaster (HM) system was built for "real" roleplaying according to Columbia Games (CG). So their FRP rules should reflect this to. And CG has succeeded in this in many ways. But there is one thibng that I cannot understand, and that is why they have the psionics skills. Personally I've ruled out psionics almost totally. Maybee the PC's could encounter somone with say clairvoyance and so on, but this would be a rare happening indeed. The HM world is real in many aspects, one is that magicians (ie Shek Pvar) are mistrusted almost everywhere, or at least seen with great suspicion. This should also apply to users of Psionics. The rules state that every character with an Aura above 12 recieve psionic talents, which implys that about 10% of the population (rough estimation) is able to use some psionic talent, or at least they have these talents dormant. I don't think that peoples mistrust of magicians would as stated in the HM booklets if more than a tenth of the populace carried psionic talents, thus making them liable to look into the future, contact ghosts, shoot Mental blasts and so on. One could argue that the PC's, being of the more "adventurous" stock, exhibit these talents in greater deal than the general populace. I don't like the idea that so many could use psionics. I personally think that the rules on magic and religion should be enough for a well-balanced game, which HM FRP is. Hope anyone bites on this. Mikael Hegardt. -----------------------------------M-----M-I--CCC-M-----M---A----CCC-------- Mikael Hegardt M M M M I C M M M M A A C Institute of Technology, Lund M M M I C M M M AAAAA C E-Mail: e90mhg@efd.lth.se M M I CCC M M A A CCC ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: e90mhg@efd.lth.se (Mikael Hegardt) Subject: Spelltome Sorry, sorry, sorry... Some days ago someone, from Finland I think, mailed to Harnlist about the spelltome which I posted some days ago... Well, my magic fingers made a slip, and threw his adress into the trashcan after I mailed him.. So please mail me again if your'e interested. Mikael Hegardt. -----------------------------------M-----M-I--CCC-M-----M---A----CCC-------- Mikael Hegardt M M M M I C M M M M A A C Institute of Technology, Lund M M M I C M M M AAAAA C E-Mail: e90mhg@efd.lth.se M M I CCC M M A A CCC ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Williams Subject: Re: Fatigue in BattleLust and Harnmaster Addendum to fatigue poser in Harnmaster: Something that has occurred to me which is inadequate about the rough rule that people should accumulate fatigue at a general level which s should then be recovered during sleep; namely that the amount of encumbrance the person has is not taken into account. Lugging a large back pack around the place is certainly more fatiguing then just walking around in a set of clothes with no other encumbrance at all. This suggests that a fraction of the encumbrance should be taken into account, although what constitutes a reasonable fraction is difficult to tell. There is a need, however, to establish a fairly intuitive and simple mechanic to cope with this oversight. Steve Williams. (stevew@uk.ac.sussex.epunix) From: maillet@paques.cert.fr (Luc Maillet) Subject: Re: Psionics About Psionics being too common in the Harnmaster character generation system... Well, I think the minimum aura for having psionic powers should be increased. I think a minimum Aura of 16 is much more representative of what a Medium is. And it makes psionically-active characters far less common. Of course, if you need a NPC with such powers, you can always create one... but they should be rare too IMHO. Redwing From: Robert Schmunk Subject: Re: Psionics This subject came up on the mailing list back in 1991, I think because I complained about one of my players using Disembodiment too his great advantage. As a result of that discussion, the current house rule in my campaign (pretty much lifted from someone else's) is: 1) character gets one psionic talent for each point of Aura above 12, which is the book rule. 2) player/character is not told what psionic talents he has except for those which he rolls more than once on the table on Skills/1 (ie., those which he would open at OML >= SB*2). 3) "missing" psionic talents may be opened at a later date when an event somehow prompts the character to realize he has the talent. My $0.02, rbs -- Robert B. Schmunk SPAC, Rice Univ, Box 1892, Houston, TX 77251 USA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [He] turned back to the window and the opaque Houston sky. "You know, there isn't anything wrong with this town that a couple of really good hurricanes couldn't fix." --Peter Gent, THE FRANCHISE From: Steve Williams Subject: Re: Psionics In what sort of situation would a GM allow a PC to become aware of his latent psionic power? Has any GM had this happen in their campaign, and if so what happened in such a case? In a campaign of mine set not in HARN but in MIDDLE-EARTH, I allowed a ranger to develop a healing psionic power. He does not really know how it works (SB1) or what the psionic power can really do. (I have banned the use of healing to raise the dead, this seems quite out of context, far too powerful especially in ME). In my situation an Elven Sorceror who had developed his skills with the help of Elven teachers, recognised the potentional that the ranger possessed and helped him to awaken the power. Steve Williams. (stevew@uk.ac.sussex.epunix) From: e90mhg@efd.lth.se (Mikael Hegardt) Subject: Re: Psionics Robert writes, concerning psionics: House rules: 1) character gets one psionic talent for each point of Aura above 12, which is the book rule. 2) player/character is not told what psionic talents he has except for those which he rolls more than once on the table on Skills/1 (ie., those which he would open at OML >= SB*2). 3) "missing" psionic talents may be opened at a later date when an event somehow prompts the character to realize he has the talent. Again, this does imply, as I wrote, that there's a great deal of people displaying these talents. Maybe they have the talent(s) lying dormant, but in my opinon the psionics Talent is to common among the general populace. As I argued, how can users of magic be viewed by suspicion when (according to the rules) so many wander around with psionic talents. As Redwing wrote, raise the limit from 12 to a higher one, maybee even 18. This would make the psionics skill vary rare ideed - and as Redwing wrote: "Of course, if you need a NPC with such powers, you can always create one...but they should be rare too IMHO." Mikael -----------------------------------M-----M-I--CCC-M-----M---A----CCC-------- Mikael Hegardt M M M M I C M M M M A A C Institute of Technology, Lund M M M I C M M M AAAAA C E-Mail: e90mhg@efd.lth.se M M I CCC M M A A CCC ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeff T. Barrett" Subject: Re: Fatigue in BattleLust and Harnmaster > From: Steve Williams > Subject: Re: Fatigue in BattleLust and Harnmaster > > Addendum to fatigue poser in Harnmaster: > > Something that has occurred to me which is inadequate about the > rough rule that people should accumulate fatigue at a general level which s > should then be recovered during sleep; namely that the amount of encumbrance > the person has is not taken into account. Lugging a large back pack around > the place is certainly more fatiguing then just walking around in a set of > clothes with no other encumbrance at all. This suggests that a fraction of > the encumbrance should be taken into account, although what constitutes a > reasonable fraction is difficult to tell. There is a need, however, to > establish a fairly intuitive and simple mechanic to cope with this oversight. > > Steve Williams. (stevew@uk.ac.sussex.epunix) > HarnMaster already includes use of a calculated Fatigue Rate in combat, so why not just apply that rate every so often, depending on the level of activity being performed. In melee, HM applies it every 1 minute. Perhaps every hour or two would be appropriate for normal hiking? For a lightly armored and equiped character, that would be close to your suggested 2 fp/hour, while for someone in metal armor, it would be a serious consideration late in the day. ==================================== Jeff T. Barrett jtbarrett@ucdavis.edu ==================================== From: satyr@netcom.com (Eric J. Anderson) Subject: Re: Psionics Robert Schmunk writes: > 2) player/character is not told what psionic talents he has except for > those which he rolls more than once on the table on Skills/1 (ie., > those which he would open at OML >= SB*2). > > 3) "missing" psionic talents may be opened at a later date when an > event somehow prompts the character to realize he has the talent. In my campaign, which is set in Kaldor, I have assigned "Knacks" to players based upon their aura. A knack is an ability which can also be a personality trait. For example one character is known as a charismatic, silver tongued devil, and his "knack" is to (subconsciosly) make people trust and like him. There is no discussion of Psionic Ability. Rather, the supernatural abilities are described in layman's terms, which give them (IMHO) a better medieval feel. I took this idea from Orson Scott Card's Seventh Son series. Also, I dont use the table to assign talents. Instead I try to think of what would make the character more interesting. Usually the character has only one knack, unless they have a particulary high aura, (greater than 15) and several "picks" go into that one knack, to produce a reasonable SB Multiple. Does anyone out there know of other interesting Abilities/Talents which are not covered in the Harnmaster rules? I ask this because I like to surprise my players with new things, since we have been playing off and on for about 6 years, and most of them know all of the rules. (exept for that outnumbering thing about +20/-20 and who gets what bonus...:) See Ya! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric J. Anderson | "When in doubt, turn left." Software Engineer | -1985 Chris Galatti InterFax Inc. |a.k.a. : satyr@netcom.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Robert Schmunk Subject: Re: Psionics Hmmm... Well, people don't seem particularly impressed by my house rule, so I might as well mention that it hasn't been tested too thoroughly yet. My group didn't play very regularly this past year (perhaps 10 sessions total). Consequently, only one new character was rolled up, and the player deliberately went for a low Aura so that he could beef up his combat-related stats. And no character of high Aura has yet experienced an event which awake a dormant talent. If I can get my campaign back on a regular meeting basis, this is something I'd plan to keep an eye on. Eric Anderson's idea of knacks sounds pretty interesting and I've thought about just bumping up the required Aura, but I've got a rules lawyer in my group who would prevent any such radical change in the psionic rules (you wouldn't believe the grief I got for instituting my current house rule). rbs -- Robert B. Schmunk SPAC, Rice Univ, Box 1892, Houston, TX 77251 USA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [He] turned back to the window and the opaque Houston sky. "You know, there isn't anything wrong with this town that a couple of really good hurricanes couldn't fix." --Peter Gent, THE FRANCHISE From: Keith Martin UGA Bookstore Computer Department Subject: Harnline BBS Hi y'all, I am new to this list, so let me apologize in advance if I am asking a bunch of out-of-date questions. First off, does anyone on this list know anything about the fate of the HarnLine BBS? By the time I was set up to contact the Duffle Board in Vancouver it had vanished. Secondly, does anyone know of any ftp sites containing Harn related materiels? On the subject of psionics, I usualy do not inform my PC's of any talents they might possess unless the character is a Shek-P'var, astrologer or other arcane lorist or a priest. I figure someone with that sort of pre- game experience would likely have discovered their abilities. I do roll for them in advance, though, in case the character ends up with something subject to passive triggering. One of the characters in my current campaign has prescience, which she is still unaware of. Occasionaly I will roll for her talent under appropriate circumstances and inform her that she "senses danger" or "has an uneasy feeling" about something. Keith Martin keith@moe.coe.uga.edu From: maillet@paques.cert.fr (Luc Maillet) Subject: Re: Psionics > From: Robert Schmunk > Subject: Re: Psionics > > Hmmm... Well, people don't seem particularly impressed by my house rule, > so I might as well mention that it hasn't been tested too thoroughly > yet. My group didn't play very regularly this past year (perhaps 10 > sessions total). Consequently, only one new character was rolled up, > and the player deliberately went for a low Aura so that he could > beef up his combat-related stats. And no character of high Aura has > yet experienced an event which awake a dormant talent. If I can get > my campaign back on a regular meeting basis, this is something I'd > plan to keep an eye on. Eric Anderson's idea of knacks sounds pretty > interesting and I've thought about just bumping up the required Aura, > but I've got a rules lawyer in my group who would prevent any such > radical change in the psionic rules (you wouldn't believe the grief > I got for instituting my current house rule). > Bad Karma, chum. Rules lawyers can be most annoying. But as you're the GM, if the other players agree with you, well, use your power to say : it works like I say until we find something better ! When I play here in Toulouse, all GMs do that. But then again, we discuss the rules beforehand, and come to an agreement. We also disposed of rules lawyers some time ago. After all, rules are just tools for you to use - or not to use... Redwing. From: Robert Schmunk Subject: Re: HarnLine BBS > First off, does anyone on this list know > anything about the fate of the HarnLine BBS? By the time I was set up to > contact the Duffle Board in Vancouver it had vanished. DuffleBoard still exists, but Rob Duff moved last August and the old phone number doesn't work anymore. I can't recall the new phone number as I usually access it through a Houston BBS which carries the V-Net Harnline echo. Also, Duff just posted a message to the echo a week or two ago to tell us that one consequence of his move is that it is now a long distance call for Robin Crossby to dial the board up. Consequently, Robin hasn't been calling in since the move. Thus, the Harnline echo these days is about 95% a pbem game being run by Michael Matson. Some real discussion crops up every now and then, as it did right after BattleLust was published. But seriously, there's almost as much real Harnic discussion on this mailing list as there is there. > Secondly, does anyone > know of any ftp sites containing Harn related materiels? Not that I'm aware of, but I have my hopes of there being one soon. Until then, maybe folks could post what they have available to share. I have ready or could quickly upload: Binhexed Macintosh documents of Character generator application Weather generator application Skill-base calculator Excel spreadsheet 60 new spells in an MS Word document Spell index (Columbia and new) in an Excel spreadsheet rbs -- Robert B. Schmunk SPAC, Rice Univ, Box 1892, Houston, TX 77251 USA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [He] turned back to the window and the opaque Houston sky. "You know, there isn't anything wrong with this town that a couple of really good hurricanes couldn't fix." --Peter Gent, THE FRANCHISE From: marten@rieska.oulu.fi (Llwyd ap Cadwaladr) Subject: Anything new from CG Hullo to the mailing list. I'm one of those fortunate called autoship customers. And I must admit that it is a *great* thing. There's one drawback however. Given the current release rate vs. announced release rate you can never tell what's coming next and when..:-). Anyhow, I just got a bill which states that my VISA was charged for 25 Canadian Dollars. The date was 21. December -92. Since I've been an autoship customer for less than a year I am not sure how and when CG "fill in" the missing amount of the 50 dollars they take in. Thus, this 25 dollars can be either: 1: A product which has been recently published. 2: An "intake" to fill in the missing amount of that 50 dollar credit. The date (last day of previous year) would seem to support the choice 2, as would the fact that I've not received anything from CG (they send it via AirMail, which means it arrives pretty quickly). So the question is, does anyone know has CG published anything after the Battlelust? Or does someone know for sure that CG updates the credit amount at that time? Keep on playing! Llwyd From: Bryan J. Sager Subject: Re: Anything new from CG Yes, CG has published something new. I just can't remember the name. Last Saturday, one of the people in my gaming group brought the new item. I was quite supprised since I'm an autoship customer too. It seems our local game store was able to get it before I did. (first time that has happened) The new item has something to do with Kaldor, I think. It includes a regional map for that area. BJS [NOTE: Rather than have 9000 header lines and just 4 lines of text on two separate messages, I combined the following two mesages on the same subject. -ETP] From: satyr@netcom.com (Eric J. Anderson) Subject: Re: Anything new from CG Harnians... I spoke with Tom Dagliesh on Monday and he said that they were in the middle of shipping out two new items: Castles of Orbaal, and Harnlore 11 He also said that Curse of Hlen was ready to go to the printers, but that they were waiting for sales of Castles of Orbaal and Harnlore 11 before they started printing it. Castles of Orbaal is supposed to have a Kingdom Map of Orbaal (finally). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric J. Anderson | "When in doubt, turn left." Software Engineer | -1985 Chris Galatti InterFax Inc. |a.k.a. : satyr@netcom.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ============================================================================= From: marten@rieska.oulu.fi (Llwyd ap Cadwaladr) Subject: Re: Anything new from CG Hum, has anyone received this new item (via autoship)? Really surprising, CG has been quite prompt in sending new items first to the autoship customers. I recall Tom Daglieshi said that a new item was coming up (something like castles of Orbaal or Castles of Shorkyne or such) but that item sounded more like a new adventure or regional module... marten From: Robert Schmunk Subject: Re: Anything new from CG > Anyhow, I just got a bill which states that my VISA was > charged for 25 Canadian Dollars. The date was 21. December -92. > Since I've been an autoship customer for less than a year > I am not sure how and when CG "fill in" the missing amount > of the 50 dollars they take in. Thus, this 25 dollars can > be either: > 1: A product which has been recently published. > 2: An "intake" to fill in the missing amount of that 50 dollar > credit. > So the question is, does anyone know has CG published anything > after the Battlelust? Or does someone know for sure that CG updates > the credit amount at that time? Well, as noted elsewhere, there apparently is a new product out. However, I can recall some discussion on the V-Net Harnline echo many months ago which suggests that Columbia often bills autoship customer's credit cards before they actually get around to shipping the item. This is one of the reasons that I have decided against becoming an autoship customer. Speaking of new Columbia stuff, has anybody seen HarnLore 11 yet? When I ordered BattleLust last August, the fellow on the phone (Tom?) told me that they already had 90% of the material for HL 11 assembled. Finally, a trivial question. In HarnLore 1, there is a list of the various scripts and languages that priests learn. For Morgathians, the temple tongue is "Ormauk". I can't find any mention of this language in the HarnWorld language section (Lythia 20) or in HarnMaster (Treasure 7). Has anyone seen any mention of this language elsewhere? -- Robert B. Schmunk SPAC, Rice Univ, Box 1892, Houston, TX 77251 USA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [He] turned back to the window and the opaque Houston sky. "You know, there isn't anything wrong with this town that a couple of really good hurricanes couldn't fix." --Peter Gent, THE FRANCHISE From: Keith Martin UGA Bookstore Computer Department Subject: Spell research/improvement Okay, everybody, here is a question I need some input on- How do the DM's on this list deal with spell improvement rolls? Do you alow one improvement roll per casting attempt, with no "optional" monthly rolls alowed? Do you alow more than one roll per attempt or what? Let me explain where this is coming from: I occurs to me that some of the spells in the various spell books are useless unless known to very high ML's. Soul Stealer, for example, which transfers a natural or artificial aura from one object to another. Very handy for creating those powerful artifacts, but unless it is known to a rather high level, it is somewhat dangerous to use since the original body that housed the aura will die! Or take Anvil of Pytama as an example. A begining Jmorvi with an ML of, say, 45, would take 110 hours to cast this spell I do not alow my PC Shek-P'var to spend more than 10 hours a day in spell casting or research, so that would work out to 11 days of greuling work, at which point the caster is entitled to make a single skill improvement roll. In order to develope a reasonalbe ML the mage in question would have to create dozens if not hundreds of enchanted weapons. In the case of Soul Stealer, what is a budding Shek-P'var to do- go around sucking the souls from various strangers until he has mastered the spell (not in my campaign or anyone elses, I'll wager) or create a false soul and transfer it back and forth ad naseum? That seems somewhat silly to me. My solution: I have been alowing the players in my game to make improvement rolls for spells in the same fashion as other skills, with one exception: If a player uses a monthly development roll to improve a spell, he/she must first make a skill roll as if attempting to cast the spell. No actual casting attempt is made, but misfire can occur. Spells that take over 12 hours to cast are permitted an improvement roll for every twelve hours involved in the actual casting attempt. Don't get me wrong, I have no desire to GM a bunch of arch-magi who exist only to create god-awful magic items, but it seems to me that if such characters, player or non-player, exist, they would have one hell of a time reaching such power levels using the rules as they stand. Comments? Keith Martin keith@moe.coe.uga.edu ps- would whoever posted a response to my question about the Harnline BBS please send me your e-mail address? I seem to have lost it, and I am interested in exchanging the spells, etc. that you mentioned. Thanks From: e90mhg@efd.lth.se (Mikael Hegardt) Subject: HarnLore Does anyone know if CG sells back issues of Harnlore? I wouldn't mind laying my hands on some of the earlier issues... -----------------------------------M-----M-I--CCC-M-----M---A----CCC-------- Mikael Hegardt M M M M I C M M M M A A C Institute of Technology, Lund M M M I C M M M AAAAA C E-Mail: e90mhg@efd.lth.se M M I CCC M M A A CCC ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: e90mhg@efd.lth.se (Mikael Hegardt) Subject: Re: Spell research/improvement I've adapted a system very much like RuneQuest when dealing with getting better in skills. Everytime a character uses a skill, he or she marks the skill off. As said in RQ, this must be done under "stressful" circumstancesm, which leaves room for the GM to decide. A skill can receive more than one mark, which is not the true in RQ (at least not tha last time I played it). Since spells are separate skills, I use it on them to. Every check entitles the player to a improvement roll as stated in the HM rules. My players haven't yet objected to this system, which is a good sign. And up to now they haven't tried to misuse it either... -----------------------------------M-----M-I--CCC-M-----M---A----CCC-------- Mikael Hegardt M M M M I C M M M M A A C Institute of Technology, Lund M M M I C M M M AAAAA C E-Mail: e90mhg@efd.lth.se M M I CCC M M A A CCC ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Petri Heiramo Subject: Re: Spell research/improvement Hello. I do use a bit different spell system, but the skill development goes much the same way. I will use a 'one roll per one casting attempt' -method with all spells since I do not have the 'problem' with long casting times. However, it seems to me that in case of extended casting times (more than a day) more than one roll per spell is appropriate. I don't think twelve hours is long enough a time (to me, 20 hours (two days) is better), but you are the judge. Giving a caster nine rolls (110 hours) for casting one spell with one single roll is giving away free rolls since the gain vs risks is forgotten. Allowing monthly rolls to be spent on spells sounds okay since the roll is still required (but wouldn't it be simplier to cast the spell once and leave the roll for something 'harder' to learn). But the rule that spells could not be improved through continued reading etc soud a bit too strict to me. Could there be a moderated rule, like allowing the continued study but requiring rolls every now and then (every third dev roll, for example)? Yours Petri Heiramo From: Jaakko Kankaanp{{ Subject: Re: Harnlore >Does anyone know if CG sells back issues of Harnlore? >I wouldn't mind laying my hands on some of the earlier >issues... Yes they do, but some of the older issues have been out of print for quite a while now, I think. When I tried to order them by mail a year or two ago, they had only issues 7 and later available. But they do sell photocopies of all the articles they have published, so I guess you might get all the important stuff published in Harnlore. Jaakko _____ Jaakko Kankaanpaa ! Turku, Finland ! jac@kontu.utu.fi "I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition" From: Robert Schmunk Subject: Re: Spell research/improvement If people think that skill improvement goes a bit slow under HarnMaster, it doesn't surprise me. It is after all a "magic poor" world, relative to other systems anyway. One other person has mentioned using the Runequest check-off system, which is just fine. However,as noted in this newsgroup before, you as a GM have to watch out for the "Runequest weapon shuffle". One of my players is a rules lawyer and is always trying to try this approach. One other thing about Runequest, or Cthulhu, is that rather than bump the skill or spell up by one point for a successful improvement roll, they instead have you a roll D6 to determine the amount of increase. That's a good way to speed things up. If you think that's too fast, you could instead use the regular HM method, but allow some sort of bonus for critting on the improvement roll. rbs -- Robert B. Schmunk SPAC, Rice Univ, Box 1892, Houston, TX 77251 USA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [He] turned back to the window and the opaque Houston sky. "You know, there isn't anything wrong with this town that a couple of really good hurricanes couldn't fix." --Peter Gent, THE FRANCHISE From: Petri Heiramo Subject: Re: Fatigue in BattleLust and Harnmaster [Ed. note: This is a slightly older topic which Petri had apparently responded to, and some mailer along the line ate the message. So in fairness to the subject and to Petri, here's the lost message... -ETP] Again, I feel I should comment. This is the second time I write this posting. The first got lost (tragic) on its way from here to Parson's (I shoulda given it a map, just had none with Parson's on it). The general rule sounds quite good. I could maybe give some extra to it (as my habit often is, to make every system as complicated as I feel it should be and I end up being dissatisfied with the slowness of the new rule). The fatigue cost should be relative to three factors: terrain, encumbrance and time. Each can have their own modifiers. I'll clear it out. The precalculated fatigue rate sounds quite good for this use. therefore, a heavily encumbered char would gain fatigue much faster than lightly encumbered one. Terrain affects quite a lot; walking constant uphill is more fatiguing than walking on level ground etc. No multiplication: Walking on level ground or light woods on a trail or a road (or anything that could be considered as a good walking surface, such as a salt flat, which definitely doesn't have anything to hinder the walker). 1.5 times fatigue rate: Walking off path (forest floor, field, etc.), medium woods (cause hindrance a bit = some undergrowth), rolling hills, etc. 2.0 times FR: more definite hills, heavy woods (heavy undergrowth), badlands, light swamp, hot weather etc. 2.5 times FR: sharp hills, low mountains, jungle (or other very heavy undergrowth), heavy swamp, etc. 3.0 times FR: Heavy mountains, bog, very hot and humid weather and anything else very tiring. These values are suggestions (as anything is) which I feel (after some thinking about the subject) quite suitable for this use. If more than one definition fits the terrain, take the highest multiplier and add .5 for every additional suitable definition (walking off-path in low mountains with light undergrowth would be 3.5 times the FR). Be reasonable in the adjustments and make them suit your plans. Time: divide the travelling time by four (= one watch) and use that as a multiplier to modify the fatigue cost. Since this sounds quite complicated and according to the original idea (to have SIMPLE rule to cover the expenditure), be generic. If the terrain is highly variable, just pick something to represent all the terrains. If the party doesn't use all the day to walk, but instead rests every now and then, cut the cost down by half or whatever you feel fitting. Note: I've not tried this out ever, I just made it all up in a flurry. if you test it, please let us (including me for sure) know how it works out. Yours, Petri Heiramo PS. Hope this try get through. I'd not want to write this everything third time From: Petri Heiramo Subject: Harnic Dragonscale Armor Hi Again. Quite some time ago I mentioned about a dragonscale armor rules I made up once, and finally I have remembered to take it with me so that I can write it to you. Here it comes. Dragonscale Armor Dragonscale is one of the rarest and most sought after armor materials. It's strong, light, flexible and expensive. It's much like fish scales, shiny and smooth, though sometimes it may have certain pointedness alike in unopened pine cones. The edges are quite sharp. Its color ranges usually from bright red to pitch black, dark red being the most common. Ahnurin scales are mostly light gray or gray. Sometimes the scales may be brownish, or have even greenish or blueish tint to them. The size of an individual scale varies depending on its location. Side and back scales are the largest and can be over five inches wide. The smallest scales are found near joints and are less than an inch wide. When compared to other armor materials, dragonscale has the best weight/protection value. It's not exactly as tough as plate, but it's better than the normal scale mail. yet it weights only slightly more than a ring mail. It doesn't catch fire either. Dragonscale armor doesn't necessarily need any padding underneath it being quite comfortable to wear, but usually some clothing is worn. Dragon scales are also easy to work with since the scaling is natural (the scales stay in the skin naturally), the scales are easier to shape than steel and the leather can be sewn together. The armor can be made to cover almost all bodyparts by using different scale sizes, but not places such as armpit (dragon skin without scales is used for them); largest ones are used for breast and back, smaller ones for hands and feet. The greatest drawback of dragonscale armor is its repair. Since the scales are organic, they are subject to chipping and cuts that cannot be easily repaired. Such damage can easily be seen on the scales and fixing the cuts completely usually requires replacing the whole scale. This in turn requires a supply of replacement scales and a skilled armorer. Scrathing the armor can be avoided by laquering the armor regularly. A skilled armorer can make 3-5 full dragon armors from one fully grown dragon, along with replacement parts, provided that he has cut the pieces himself. One full set of average quality dragon armor can easily cost over 15000d and closer to 20000d with replacement parts. The cost can be reduced greatly by going out and killing the dragon by oneself. The price can also be called a drawback. Protection : inferior B 5, E 7, P 4, F 6, S 3, T 7 average B 6, E 9, P 5, F 7, S 4, T 8 superior B 7, E 11, P 6, F 8, S 5, T 10 Production : weight .38, make 12d/7h, cost 150d Have nice time. Yours, Petri Heiramo From: klaus@diku.dk Subject: Re: Spell research/improvement In my campaign, we allowed one roll per casting, except that spells that took more than one day got one roll per day. There are some spells that are quite useless even under this rule. Klaus O K