From: Klaus Ole Kristiansen Subject: spell books FYI, a few days ago I received the Odivshe and Savorya spell books. Is there any interest in a suffed, binhexed hypercard stack of the spells I and my players have made? Klaus O K [Ed. note: Klaus is offering what *he and his players* have made, not a new electronic copy of the earlier mentioned books. Just for clarification. I goofed on the first reading. -Eric] From: Paul Stratton (Sierra Geophysics, Inc.) I just received the last two spell books the other day from Columbia Games. They are the Savaroyan and air magic books (I can't remember the Harn name :) ). The Savaroyan book has two variable level spells that are the first of their type put out. They're pretty much like all the other ones that have come out. Battle Lust is supposed to be out in February. A new Panaga adventure in November and Castles of Orbaal in November. See ya, Paul From: Robert Schmunk Subject: Spell index As I promised yesterday, below is a copy of the index to all the spells that I have. The index is in a format similar to the index that someone else so kindly posted last spring. The spells come from a variety of sources: Harnmaster rule book Tome of the Shek-Pvar: just one spell, Varsisa's Mirror Tome of Gray Mysteries Tome of Fyvria Tome of Jmorvi Tome of Lyahvi Tome of Peleahn Harnlore 3: a collection of six spells, one from each convocation. A couple have been revised and included in the tomes. Harnlore 5: a collection of Jmorvi spells, many of which have been revised and included in Tome of Jmorvi. Several of the others are out-of-date, as they are based on 1st ed. magic rules. Harnline files: many of these have seen print, most notably in Harnlore 5, but several have not; Steve Bartlett: the originals of these were all posted here last spring, but several of them are based on 1st ed magic rules; Klaus Ole Kristiansen: a score of spells invented by Klaus and/or members of his gaming group and not posted anywhere else; Robert Schmunk: most of these were posted here last spring, though I believe that Bonedart was posted with a different name. Unfortunately, my gaming group has been inactive for the past few months and I have been unable to expand my contribution. Note: I have just been informed by one of Columbia's autoship customers that he has just received Tome of Savorya and Tome of Odivshe. Hopefully I will have copies soon and can update the index. The index has five fields (spell name, convocation, complexity level, where to find the spell, and replacement) separated by pipes, "|". It will be much more readable after you do a global change of pipes to tabs. The replacement field is only used when the spell has been replaced by a spell published later (for instance, Artifact of Power was replaced by the combination of Fount of Power and Resurge), and in that case the convocation and complexity are blanked out. In the case of spells taken from the Harnline file MELCHUSN, I have assigned what I thought the most appropriate convocations, but in one case I was unable to decide. rbs ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Robert B. Schmunk SPAC, Rice Univ, Box 1892, Houston, TX 77251 -- (713) 527-4939 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ We pay for a single fighter plane with a half-million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than eight thousand people. This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron. --Dwight D. Eisenhower, 16 April 1953 ------------------------------(snip here)-------------------------------------- Spell Name|Convocation|Level|Source|Replacement Ablarin's Field|Lyahvi|I|Tome of Lyahvi| Abort|Neutral|Multi|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Absorb|Common/Neutral|Multi|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Aeric's Silken Voice|Lyahvi|II|Tome of Lyahvi| Aeric's Whisper|Lyahvi|I|Tome of Lyahvi| Affects of Lizaveta|Savorya|III|Robert Schmunk and Richard Reilly| Aidan's Hastening|Peleahn|II|Tome of Peleahn| Animus of Nithri|Fyvria|V|Tome of Fyvria, supersedes Harnmaster| Anvil of Pytama|Jmorvi|III|Tome of Jmorvi, supersedes Harnmaster| Arm of Caradoc|Jmorvi|III|Klaus Ole Kristiansen and Klaus Mogensen| Arrow of Utern|Savorya|VI|Harnlore 3| Artifact of Power|...|...|Harnmaster|Fount of Power + Resurge Aspect of Tarus|Jmorvi|II|Tome of Jmorvi| Attune|Common/Neutral|Multi|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Azure Hand|Odivshe|I|Harnmaster| Balm of Gresan|Fyvria|I|Tome of Fyvria| Balm of Herl|Fyvria|III|Tome of Fyvria, supersedes Harnmaster| Balor's Lock|Jmorvi|I|Harnline file MELCHUSN| Barl's Cloak|Jmorvi|VII|Tome of Jmorvi| Beacon of Isala|Lyahvi|I|Tome of Lyahvi, supersedes Harnmaster| Beam of Nolar|Lyahvi|IV|Tome of Lyahvi, supersedes Harnmaster| Bekla's Warrior|Lyahvi|IV|Klaus Ole Kristiansen and Christine Fossing| Benhart's Animus|Fyvria|V|Robert Schmunk| Bladesharp|Jmorvi|II|Harnlore 5, supersedes Harnline file JMORVI-1| Bolts of Dalg|Peleahn|V|Tome of Peleahn| Bond of Gold|Jmorvi|IV|Klaus Ole Kristiansen and Klaus Mogensen| Bonedart|Fyvria|II|Robert Schmunk, variant of Steeldart| Breath of Casyl|Peleahn|II|Tome of Peleahn, supersedes Harnmaster| Breath of Dhivu|Odivshe|III|Harnmaster| Buoyancy of Shal|Lyahvi|III|Steve Bartlett| Caress of Pelena|Peleahn|I|Tome of Peleahn, supersedes Harnmaster| Cause Blindness|Savorya|III|Klaus Ole Kristiansen and Torben Mogensen| Chain|Neutral|Multi|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Channel|Common|VIII|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Charachi's Fever|Peleahn|IV|Tome of Peleahn| Charge|Neutral|II|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Chill|Odivshe|I|Klaus Ole Kristiansen| Chinuak's Passage|Peleahn|V|Robert Schmunk, variant of Passage of Ahnu| Cloak of Bekla|Lyahvi|IV|Klaus Ole Kristiansen and Christine Fossing| Cloak of Kalaerin|Lyahvi|II|Tome of Lyahvi| Cloak of Yavaris|Peleahn|II|Tome of Peleahn| Crimson Proxy|Lyahvi|II|Klaus Ole Kristiansen and Christine Fossing| Crimson Rune|Lyahvi|I|Tome of Lyahvi, supersedes Harnmaster| Curse (Major)|I|VII|Harnline file MELCHUSN| Curse of Bryen|Lyahvi|III|Tome of Lyahvi| Dance of Kuru-Keshti|Peleahn|VI|Tome of Peleahn, supersedes Harnlore 3| Destroy|Common|VIII|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Detect People|Savorya|II|Klaus Ole Kristiansen and Torben Mogensen| Dispell|Neutral|Multi|Tome of Gray Mysteries, supersedes Harnmaster| Doom of Zhatran|Peleahn|VII|Tome of Peleahn| Douse|Odivshe|III|Klaus Ole Kristiansen| Dream of Galega|Fyvria|IV|Tome of Fyvria| Ear of Pvara|Neutral|I|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Ego Enhancement|Jmorvi|V|Harnlore 5, supersedes Harnline file JMORVI-1| Enchant Spell Receptacle|...|...|Klaus Ole Kristiansen and Christine Fossing|Attune Energy Pool|Neutral|III|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Enhancement|Neutral|IV|Tome of Gray Mysteries, supersedes Harnmaster| Entora's Mirror|Lyahvi|IV|Tome of Lyahvi| Essence of Sinad|Fyvria|VII|Tome of Fyvria| Estai's Curse|Jmorvi|VI|Tome of Jmorvi| Estai's Word|Jmorvi|VI|Harnlore 3| Esten's Mirror|Neutral|V|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Evardin's Tube|Lyahvi|V|Tome of Lyahvi| Eye of Dekejis|Savorya|II|Klaus Ole Kristiansen and Torben Mogensen| Eye of Kemdal|Neutral|I|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Eye of Meredos|Jmorvi|IV|Harnlore 5, supersedes Harnline file JMORVI-1| Eye of Perfection|Fyvria|II|Tome of Fyvria| Eye of Ultramarine|Odivshe|II|Harnmaster| Eyes of Niyar|Peleahn|III|Tome of Peleahn| Eyesight of the Sindarin|Lyahvi|II|Harnline file MELCHUSN| Fade|Common/Neutral|Multi|Tome of Gray Mysteries| False Soul|Common|IV|Tome of Gray Mysteries, supersedes Harnmaster| Favrin's Bar|Fyvria|III|Tome of Fyvria| Feel|Common/Neutral|Multi|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Fiend of Hazatai|Peleahn|VI|Tome of Peleahn| Figure of Aestir|Lyahvi|VII|Tome of Lyahvi| Figure of Aestras|Fyvria|I|Tome of Fyvria| Figure of Chuan|Jmorvi|V|Tome of Jmorvi| Finger of Marlas|Peleahn|I|Tome of Peleahn, supersedes Harnmaster| Fist of Kuhan|Jmorvi|IV|Tome of Jmorvi| Focus|Common/Neutral|Multi|Tome of Gray Mysteries, supersedes Harnmaster| Force of Kail|Neutral|IX|Harnline file COMPOUND| Forge of Kanatai|Jmorvi|VI|Tome of Jmorvi| Forge of Obras|Jmorvi|IV|Tome of Jmorvi, supersedes Harnmaster| Fount of Power|Neutral|Multi|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Galra's Enhancement|Savorya|II|Harnmaster| Gate of Kemdal|Neutral|V|Tome of Gray Mysteries, supersedes Harnmaster| Globe of Setath|Lyahvi|III|Tome of Lyahvi, supersedes Harnmaster| Golden Enchantment|Jmorvi|V|Klaus Ole Kristiansen and Klaus Mogensen| Golden Eye|Jmorvi|I|Tome of Jmorvi, supersedes Harnmaster| Hadil's Envelope|Peleahn|IV|Tome of Peleahn| Hammerblow|Jmorvi|II|Klaus Ole Kristiansen and Klaus Mogensen| Hand of Iliam|Fyvria|II|Tome of Fyvria| Hlandor's Flash|Lyahvi|II|Tome of Lyahvi| Immolation|Peleahn|V|Tome of Peleahn, supersedes Harnmaster| Influence of Thelen|Fyvria|V|Harnline file MELCHUSN| Infuse|Common|III|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Invisibility|Lyahvi|III|Harnline file MELCHUSN| Iron Sting|Jmorvi|II|Tome of Jmorvi| Jerila's Zone|Savorya|V|Harnmaster| Jmorvi Periapt|...|...|Harnlore 5, supersedes Harnline file JMORVI-1|Periapt of Power Kalsor's Trap|Odivshe|IV|Harnmaster| Kynor's Extinction|Fyvria|III|Steve Bartlett| Kynor's Ward|Fyvria|V|Steve Bartlett, variant of Tharasin's Ward| Lance of Meredos|Jmorvi|VII|Tome of Jmorvi| Lens of Ikara|Lyahvi|II|Tome of Lyahvi, supersedes Harnmaster| Lifeblade|Jmorvi|VIII|Harnlore 5, supersedes Harnline file JMORVI-1| Light of Aestir|Lyahvi|IV|Tome of Lyahvi| Light Sensitivity|Savorya|II|Klaus Ole Kristiansen and Torben Mogensen| Lustre of Ymar|Jmorvi|I|Tome of Jmorvi| Maintain|Neutral|Multi|Tome of Gray Mysteries, supersedes Harnmaster| Mankor's Curse|Fyvria|IV|Tome of Fyvria, supersedes Harnmaster| Mask of Shinjur|Neutral|V|Tome of Gray Mysteries, supersedes Harnmaster| Maslor's Charm|Lyahvi|VI|Tome of Lyahvi| Mend|Jmorvi|III|Tome of Jmorvi, supersedes Harnlore 5 and Harnline file JMORVI-1| Meredos' Enhancement|Jmorvi|II|Harnlore 5, supersedes Harnline file JMORVI-1| Merge|Common/Neutral|Multi|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Metala of Elkal|Jmorvi|II|Tome of Jmorvi, supersedes Harnmaster| Mikaad's Ward|Savorya|IV|Harnmaster| Motes of Ardin|Lyahvi|V|Tome of Lyahvi| Mouth of Lathal|Odivshe|III|Harnmaster| Narelda's Runestaffs|Savorya|III|Klaus Ole Kristiansen and Torben Mogensen| Noituac's Storm|Neutral|VI|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Nourishment of Avar|Fyvria|III|Klaus Ole Kristiansen| Nurture of Isla|Fyvria|III|Tome of Fyvria, supersedes Harnmaster| Orb of Zatara|Peleahn|III|Tome of Peleahn, supersedes Harnmaster| Ordeal of Frida|Savorya|III|Harnmaster| Pall of Veshel|Odivshe|IV|Harnmaster| Passage of Ahnu|Peleahn|V|Tome of Peleahn| Passage of Chabar|Fyvria|VI|Tome of Fyvria, supersedes Harnlore 3| Passage of Lyah|Lyahvi|V|Tome of Lyahvi, supersedes Harnmaster| Perfection of Sif|Savorya|I|Harnmaster| Periapt of Power|Neutral|Multi|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Power of Daras|Neutral|II|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Power of Ilmer|Odivshe|I|Harnmaster| Power of Sharadorn|Fyvria|III|Tome of Fyvria| Prism of Gethan|Lyahvi|III|Tome of Lyahvi, supersedes Harnmaster| Psi Talent|Jmorvi|IV|Harnlore 5, supersedes Harnline file JMORVI-1| Psychic Tracking|Savorya|III|Klaus Ole Kristiansen and Torben Mogensen| Putrid Hand|Fyvria|I|Tome of Fyvria, supersedes Harnmaster| Pyre of Onkh|Peleahn|III|Tome of Peleahn, supersedes Harnmaster| Rainbow Sanctum|...|...|see Sanctum| Raldyn's Bubble|Neutral|Multi|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Regenesis|Fyvria|IV|Tome of Fyvria, supersedes Harnmaster| Regrowth of Evala|Fyvria|V|Tome of Fyvria| Release|Common|III|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Resurge|Neutral|IV|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Ring of Fiery Doom|Peleahn|V|Tome of Peleahn| Sanctum|Common/Neutral|Multi|Tome of Gray Mysteries, supersedes Harnmaster| Sea of Fire|Peleahn|IV|Tome of Peleahn, supersedes Harnmaster| Shadow of Yanar|Odivshe|II|Harnmaster| Sheen of Krazma|Jmorvi|III|Steve Bartlett| Shield of Kail|Neutral|Multi|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Sight of Castranel|Lyahvi|III|Tome of Lyahvi| Sight of Eneldir|Jmorvi|I|Tome of Jmorvi, supersedes Harnmaster| Sight of Laris|Peleahn|III|Harnline file SPL-FIND| Silme's Ward|Fyvria|V|Tome of Fyvria| Sirik's Cant|Jmorvi|III|Tome of Jmorvi, supersedes Harnmaster| Sirik's Ward|...|...|Steve Bartlett|Ward of Sirik Skin of Lexesh|Peleahn|II|Tome of Peleahn| Smoke of Laris|Peleahn|III|Harnline file SPL-FIND| Soul Stealer|Neutral|VI|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Sphere of Shanakar|Peleahn|I|Tome of Peleahn| Spirit Block|Savorya|IV|Harnmaster| Stabilize Ice|Odivshe|IV|Klaus Ole Kristiansen| Steeldart|Jmorvi|II|Harnlore 5, supersedes Harnline file JMORVI-1| Store|Neutral|IV|Tome of Gray Mysteries, supersedes Harnmaster| Storok's Hand|Odivshe|VI|Harnlore 3| Succor of Blezil|Fyvria|V|Tome of Fyvria| Suld's Ward|Neutral|III|Tome of Gray Mysteries, supersedes Harnmaster| Suspension|Common/Neutral|Multi|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Swordbreaker|Jmorvi|IV|Tome of Jmorvi, supersedes Harnlore 5 and Harnline file JMORVI-1| Syncope of Shalor|Fyvria|II|Tome of Fyvria, supersedes Harnmaster| Takara's Curse|Fyvria|II|Tome of Fyvria| Talin's Bane|Neutral|II|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Talin's Eye|Neutral|II|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Targen's Brand|Peleahn|III|Tome of Peleahn| Targeting|Lyahvi|II|Klaus Ole Kristiansen and Christine Fossing| Tears of Kimyan|Jmorvi|V|Tome of Jmorvi| Tempering of Pytama|Jmorvi|II|Tome of Jmorvi| Tharasin's Ward|Jmorvi|V|Tome of Jmorvi, supersedes Harnmaster| Theris' Charm|Jmorvi|III|Tome of Jmorvi, supersedes Harnlore 5 and Harnline file JMORVI-1| Theris' Restoration|Jmorvi|IV|Tome of Jmorvi, supersedes Harnlore 5 and Harnline file JMORVI-1| Tongue of Pvara|Neutral|I|Tome of Gray Mysteries, supersedes Harnmaster| Torch of /mka|Peleahn|I|Klaus Ole Kristiansen| Touch of Ilindia|Neutral|II|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Touch of Kasrak|Peleahn|VII|Tome of Peleahn| Touch of Ptaris|Fyvria|VII|Tome of Fyvria| Toval's Rest|Odivshe|V|Harnmaster| Transform|Common/Neutral|Multi|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Trigger|Neutral|Multi|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Turgel's Perambulation|Odivshe|IV|Klaus Ole Kristiansen| Vapor of Hirin|Lyahvi|VII|Tome of Lyahvi| Varsisa's Mirror|Lyahvi|II|Tome of the Shek Pvar| Veil of Nashal|Neutral|I|Tome of Gray Mysteries, supersedes Harnmaster| Verdant Hand|Fyvria|I|Tome of Fyvria, supersedes Harnmaster| Vessel of Galanda|Fyvria|VI|Tome of Fyvria| Vessel of Iladan|Neutral|V|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Vine of Alguinas|Fyvria|IV|Tome of Fyvria| Violet Eye|Savorya|I|Harnmaster| Visions of Sheridyn|Lyahvi|V|Tome of Lyahvi| Voice of Lothrim|Savorya|VII|Harnline file MELCHUSN| Wall of Shanador|Peleahn|IV|Tome of Peleahn, supersedes Harnmaster| Ward|Common/Neutral|Multi|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Ward of Akana|Jmorvi|IV|Tome of Jmorvi, supersedes Harnmaster| Ward of Sirik|Jmorvi|I|Tome of Jmorvi| Well of Anasiron|Neutral|III|Tome of Gray Mysteries, supersedes Harnmaster| Will of Kirat|Neutral|IV|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Wind of Ardian|Lyahvi|VI|Tome of Lyahvi| Wind of Derkilin|Lyahvi|VI|Harnlore 3| Wind of Sharis|Lyahvi|IV|Tome of Lyahvi, supersedes Harnmaster| Wisdom of Usela|Savorya|III|Harnmaster| Zyna's Tap|Neutral|II|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Zyna's Will|Neutral|Multi|Tome of Gray Mysteries| Zyrgin's Heat|Peleahn|I|Tome of Peleahn| From: lrg@crud.cray.com (Lee Gordon) Subject: Re: Questions > From: ez007612@pollux.ucdavis.edu (Tim Prestero) > Subject: Questions > > 3. Has anybody developed rules for combatants wielding > two weapons? Or having multiple missile fire in one turn? > Ten seconds seems to be an awful long time to knock and fire > an arrow... I would strongly recommend against allowing multiple missile shots per round. Our group has found that the longbow (we don't allow crossbows) is probably the most effective weapon (with a point aspect of 8, 10 if heavy). If you double the number of attacks for missile weapons, you'll find that PCs will either all become expert bowmen, or probably end up dead. For example, lets say 5 bandits, armed with bows, attack 3 PCs, and 2 of the PCs know bow (or Bo???). They would be out gunned 10 shots to 4 until they were able to close. Not too friendly... > 6. We've made the Store spell a multi-complexity spell. First off, > the assignment of fourth complexity seemed arbitrary, and I've put > a third complexity limit on starting spells for Shek Pvar. Comments? The only argument I'd have against this is that this forces players to chew up alot of game time later learning higher level spells. Since it can be quite time consuming (game time) to pick those up, it's sometime nice to have the game time lost during the character generation, as opposed to having the other PCs wait around for a game year while their mage studies. -Lee From: jadominguez@ucdavis.edu (Tim Prestero) Subject: Re: Harn. what else? To summarise my campaign, it is set in a mideaval city in the general location of what is now Marseille. The atmosphere, however, is quite similar to that of the Sanctuary books; PC's running about in the festering slums, dealing with crooked politicians, young punks, monsters in the sewers, etc. I play a slightly "higher fantasy" game than that of regular Harn, as there are more non-human races, more monsters, and more obvious use of magic. It is not, however, "munchkin adventures". :) I do have a few warnings: First of all, as you know, the files were all written on a word processor first, with nifty pictures and tables and fonts, etc. Converting them to ascii has left them looking rather messy, and drab, in my opinion. All though I quickly went over all of them, there are probably still quite a few places where tabs are screwy, and some paragraphs may have been jumbled up. Secondly, this is a lot of stuff. I'm going to mail you about the first half, [Ed note: a series of articles to follow this AFTER Thanksgiving break, but one right now.] and save some for later. That still leaves quite a bit of crap to mail you. I'm not sure if you'll want to post ALL of the files onto the mailing list at once. I'd really like to hear people's reactions to these things, and I think I'll get a better response if they have time to read each article individually. So, maybe you could put a few days between each article, or something. Ciao, TIM [Ed note: This article appears with generous editing from me, but no context has been changed. -Eric] From: ez007612@pollux.ucdavis.edu (Tim Prestero) Subject: Menedian magic system My Harn game is not based on Harn (so why do I call it harn?). I was pretty satisfied with the rules given for Shek Pvar in Harnmaster, but as I run what could be considered a "high fantasy" game by regular Harn standards, I wanted to have a group of rather obvious, flashy mages, to balance the subtle Shek Pvar, and satisfy some ex-AD&Ders who found Shek Pvar too limiting. Hence, the Menedian mage. There are no internal controls on the Menedian mage society. There are as many corrupt Menedians fiddling about in mortal affairs as there are decent, upstanding ones. In my opinion, Skek Pvar and Menedians balance each other out nicely. The "origins" section is a bit clunky still, as I'm an atrocious writer. Just kinda skip over that part, and tell me what you think of the rules. I welcome and encourage any questions, comments or criticisms. I should be posting some example spells from the Thaumaterge convocation, to give you an idea of "power levels". Tim "the Evil GM" Prestero ez007612@pollux.ucdavis.edu ------------------------------------------------------------ ORIGINS Originally, Menedian mages came from the same ancient society as Shek Pvar, that of Alphatia. The mages of Alphatia were the first to organize into any sort of community. Before that time, mages were an isolated group, and stayed away from each other in order to protect their secrets and lives. About three hundred years after the founding of the Academy Arcane, the magical community split as a result of two separate arguments, that somehow became associated with each other. These arguments eventually grew to such ridiculous proportions, that a group of mages left the Academy, to establish a colony near one of AlphatiaUs western colonies, what is now the country of Menedia. What was it that these ancient mages so disagreed on? Firstly, the mages differed on the proper classification of magic. Shek Pvar believed that a spell was to be classified by its elements, the components of the spell, and the elements the spell was able to affect. Their six convocations were split along elemental lines. Menedian mages, on the other hand, believed a spell was to be classified by its effects in the physical world. Their seven major convocations were divided along those lines. Secondly, although both groups agreed that mages were set apart from the rest of the populace, they differed on what was the proper place of mages in society. Shek Pvar believed that a mage should never use his art to set himself a place above the rest of humanity. Magical arts were to be concealed, so as not to bring about the attentions of the often- hostile populace. Additionally, only a select few should be chosen to be taught the arts, to carry on the studies of magic. Menedians, on the other hand, had no qualms about using their arts in the presence of, or even on, ordinary men. They thought nothing of displaying their magical might in public, and even using to gain advantage in the mundane world. According to the Shek Pvar, they would also teach the arts to anyone who had enough money. Eventually, the Menedians, searching for a place to practice their art in peace, settled on the distant shores of the Alphatian colonies. They developed Menedia into a land where a mage was free to study without fear of religious or superstitious interruption. They invented the High Council, which served as both an expert panel on magical affairs, and a sort of public watch group, keeping their fellow mages from getting out of hand. The Disciplines There are seven major disciplines or schools in Menedian magic, and numerous minor ones. The disciplines are divided along the lines of their effects. School Title Principle Divination Seer Divination/ Scrying Enchantment Enchanter Charm/ Enchantment Illusion Illusionist Light/ Illusion/ Deception Necromancy Necromancer Necromancy/ Life/ Unlife Thaumatergy Thaumaturge Summoning/ Formation of Energy Witchery Warlock Summoning/ Binding of Creatures Wizardry Wizard Change/Transformation Sunsign Modifiers Menedian skill bases are just as affected by sunsign as Skek Pvarian ones. The table below lists the modifiers to convocational SB for each sunsign. SIGN Div Ench Ill Necro Thau Witch Wiz AHN -2 -2 +0 +0 +2 -2 +2 ANG -2 -2 +0 -2 +3 -3 +0 ARA -2 -2 -2 +2 +0 +0 +2 FEN -3 -3 -1 +0 +0 -1 +3 HIR +0 +0 +3 -3 +0 -2 -2 LAD +0 +0 -2 -2 -2 +2 +0 MAS +0 +0 -2 +0 -3 +3 -2 NAD +0 +0 +2 -2 +2 -2 +0 SKO +2 +2 +0 +0 -2 +2 -2 TAI +3 +3 +0 -2 -2 +0 -3 TAR +2 +2 +2 -2 +0 +0 -2 ULA -1 -1 -3 +3 -1 +0 +0 Choosing Disciplines After reaching a point of study, Menedian mages assign their focus of further study. Each mage has a Primary Discipline, two Secondary Disciplines, two Tertiary Disciplines, and two or more Quarternary Disciplines. When attempting to learn a spell of a non-Primary discipline, there are modifiers to the mageUs SB, as follows: Primary Discipline +0 Secondary Disciplines -4 Tertiary Disciplines -8 Quarternary Disciplines -12 Neutral Disciplines -6 Spell Elements Menedian spells have have primary, often secondary and tertiary, and even quarternary elements. Elements are aspects of the seven disciplines used by the spell. For example, a spell could use elements of Alteration, Necromancy and Summoning to achieve its effects. SB modifiers for mages casting spells using elements other than their primary disciplines are reduced as the non- primary disciplines are used as non-primary elements (Didya catch that?). The modifiers are as follows: Primary element +0 Secondary element +2 Tertiary Element +4 Quarternary element +6 A Very Necessary Example Sonoric Newt, a notorious Menedian mage, has Divination as his primary discipline, Illusion and Summoning as his secondary disciplines, Charm and Necromancy as his tertiary disciplines, and Alteration and Evocation as his quarternary disciplines. One of his spells, SonoricUs Spying Minions, a Fourth complexity spell, has Divination (+0 to SB) as its primary element, and Summoning (-4 to SB) as its secondary element. His SB is determined as per Shek Pvar rules, using the [Aura Aura Int] formula, with modifiers due to spell elements and complexity. Sonoric has an Aura of 16, and an Intelligence of 18, which yields a base SB of 17. His SB for this spell would be: 17 (SB) -4 (element) -4 (Complexity) +2 (element place) = 11 It is up to the GM to determine what class each spell element takes during spell creation. It is possible for a spell to have two primary components, and other such combinations. Menedians and Shek Pvar Spells It is possible for Menedian mages to learn and cast Shek Pvarian spells, and vice versa. In the case of the Menedian, the mage must determine what elements constitute the spell, in order to determine his SB. Additionally, the complexity level of the spell may change, due to differences in spell philosophy. In the case of the Shek Pvar, he must determine which convocation the Menedian spell most resembles (often a difficult decision). As with Menedians, the complexity of the spell may differ as a result of differences in spell philosophy. From: ez007612@pollux.ucdavis.edu (Tim Prestero) Subject: Re: Harn Questions > The Columbia order form that I have (dated 3/91) lists it as out > of stock, but I may have seen it a store recently. Check your local > game shops, or call Columbia at 1-800-663-8453 and let them know > that it's time to re-issue it. I personally didn't care much for > Evael, except for the Pesino article. However, I've never cared > much for elves myself, so it may just be personal bias. What sort of articles were in it? I liked Crossby's presentation of elves in Gods of Harn, and Harndex...was this written by somebody else? It's hard to find out here. > I just bought Jmorvi and Fyvria and am in the process of amending > my master spell index. I'll post it to the net when I get it done, > perhaps tomorrow. This list contains all the spells from the five > (so far) tomes, the main rulebook, various Harnline articles, > a bunch that were posted to the net last spring, and a dozen that > were given to me by another Harner last month. Altogether, around > 200 spells I'm always interested in adding to this list, so I too > am wondering if somebody out there is maintaining an anthology. I would much appreciate it if you could post this. Always looking for new spell ideas. A friend of mine was just waving Odivshe and Savorya in my face today. Better print job than Jmorvi, too. Tim Prestero ez007612@pollux.ucdavis.edu From: Robert Schmunk Subject: Vervan-Net Would anyone happen to know what the status on the relationship between Harnline and Vervan-Net (V-Net)? Back in the summer, Crossby posted in the V-Net Harnline echo fairly frequently, and it was there that I saw the first announcement that Fyvria and Jmorvi were out. The last month or so, it seems like traffic in the V-Net Harnline echo has fallen way off and now consists mostly of a pbem game. Then in the last day or two, I saw a posting which said something about Crossby and Dalgliesh not paying V-Net any attention. Any clues? rbs ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Robert B. Schmunk SPAC, Rice Univ, Box 1892, Houston, TX 77251 -- (713) 527-4939 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ We pay for a single fighter plane with a half-million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than eight thousand people. This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron. --Dwight D. Eisenhower, 16 April 1953 From: ez007612@pollux.ucdavis.edu (Tim Prestero) Subject: Re: New Spells > Is there any interest in a suffed, binhexed hypercard stack of > the spells I and my players have made? > > Klaus O K YES!! As long as you tell us how you stuffed it. I assume its hypercard for the Mac? In return, I'll keep posting all of my new spells (in boring ascii, though, sorry). I could try to post some binhexed MS Word files that have some neato tables and illustrations. Tim Prestero ez007612@hamlet.ucdavis.edu [Ed. note: If you are interested in Klaus' Mac stuff, send requests directly to him at klaus@diku.dk and work out the details with him. If you are interested in having him (and/or others) post the spells to the Harn mailing list, maybe we can coerce some ascii translations out of him. Let me know. -Eric] From: Robert Schmunk Subject: New Savorya spell Here's a spell one of my players just came up with and which you sneaky types may find useful. I would appreciate any comments you care to make, particularly in regards to the appropriateness of the Complexity Level. WALLFLOWER Shek Pvar: Savorya IV Melchusian Magic: Sorcery IV (source: Robert Schmunk and Richard Reilly) A spell which causes all persons in line-of-sight to not notice the caster's presence, as if she was a Wallflower at a dance. In effect, the caster is saying "ignore me." Each victim may test his Will to determine to measure the extent to which he succumbs; roll against Willx4 (MS) or Willx2 (CS) and check the effect against the following: CS Victim is not affected by the spell. MS Victim will not notice the caster in a well-lit area as long as she remains still and silent, or in a darkened area as long as she moves slowly and speaks no more loudly than a whisper. MF Caster may move at walking speed and speak at normal volume without being noticed. CF Caster remains un-noticed as long as she does nothing particularly sudden, such as yelling out or jump in front of the victim. If the caster is still, the victim may even bump into her and not notice her. Bonus Effects ML71+ A person other than the caster may be designated the Wallflower. Range is touch. ML91+ Up to SI persons within SI feet may be designated Wallflowers. Fatigue: (15-SI)x3 Time: (15-SI)x2 seconds Range: Basic, touch ML71+, touch ML91+, SI feet Duration: MS, ML45 seconds CS, ML/2 minutes ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Robert B. Schmunk SPAC, Rice Univ, Box 1892, Houston, TX 77251 -- (713) 527-4939 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Life's just like business; you've got to take a firm position. There's nothing in the middle of the road except yellow stripes and dead oppossums." --J.C. Pollock, THREAT CASE From: Klaus Ole Kristiansen Subject: Re: New Spells Subject: Re: New Spells From: ez007612@pollux.ucdavis.edu (Tim Prestero) Subject: Re: New Spells > Is there any interest in a suffed, binhexed hypercard stack of > the spells I and my players have made? > > Klaus O K YES!! As long as you tell us how you stuffed it. I assume its hypercard for the Mac? In return, I'll keep posting all of my new spells (in boring ascii, though, sorry). I could try to post some binhexed MS Word files that have some neato tables and illustrations. Tim Prestero ez007612@hamlet.ucdavis.edu [Ed. note: If you are interested in Klaus' Mac stuff, send requests directly to him at klaus@diku.dk and work out the details with him. If you are interested in having him (and/or others) post the spells to the Harn mailing list, maybe we can coerce some ascii translations out of him. Let me know. -Eric] >From corresponding with mr. Schmunk, I have realized that many of the spells are dated. They were made by the old rules, when store was really powerful, and Jmorvi sorcerers could make magic items using Jmorvi spells (including some which were in principle common, but really would only be used in the Jmorvi version. Who wants to enchant water to do extra damage?) The stack is thus mostly useful if you want a stack to keep your own spells in. Anyway, mr. Schmunk is reworking the few spells that are still useful, and may post them in ASCII later. Klaus O K From: Robert Schmunk Subject: Rethem I am looking for a copy of the RETHEM kingdom module, which is currently out- of-print. If one of you knows a nearby gamestore which has a copy, I would be happy to reimburse you for purchasing it and mailing it to me. (I won't ask anybody if he would be willing to give up his personal copy. God knows I wouldn't give up one of my modules.) And for those of you are interested, my local gamestore still has two copies of EVAEL, which is also out-of-print. Including Texas sales tax, the price is $16.25 (which is a bit high, but the store overcharges on everything). rbs ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Robert B. Schmunk SPAC, Rice Univ, Box 1892, Houston, TX 77251 -- (713) 527-4939 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ...give me a man or woman who has read a thousand books and you give me an interesting companion. Give me a man or woman who has read perhaps three and you give me a dangerous enemy indeed. --Anne Rice, THE WITCHING HOUR From: Klaus Ole Kristiansen Subject: spell stack I have send those who asked my spell stack some time ago. Did you get it? If anyone wnts it, send me mail. Klaus O K From: Steven Subject: Magic theory I would like to know if any of you have found it necessery to work out fundamental principles of magic, perhaps to help in spell creation or the invention of magic object and the like. I have been discussing the usefullness of this sort of invention for some time with various people I role play with. Its not easy to come up with usefull ideas that could be used in a campaign world to explain magic, but I am of the opinion that these sort of ideas could come in handy. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven Tarry : csf219@uk.ac.cov.cck : Tarry by name, tarry by nature. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Robert Schmunk Subject: Harnworld submissions I have recently corresponded with Robin Crossby about Columbia Games' policy regarding submissions for Harnworld, info like what to send, how to send, etc. If you are interested in info about the procedure, drop me a line. rbs ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Robert B. Schmunk SPAC, Rice Univ, Box 1892, Houston, TX 77251 -- (713) 527-4939 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: jadominguez@ucdavis.edu (Tim Prestero) Subject: Grey spells These are two grey spells I recently came up with. The first is intended to create multiple use magic items, such as flaming swords, etc. The spells main advantage is that it allows non-spell casters to cast spells, as they still have to spend the time casting, and it protects them somewhat from the disastrous effects of a CS. The second is intended for a NPC necromancer I'm working on, who uses it to keep his artificial- personalitied undead in line. They're free willed, though their purpose is to serve him. The spells insures (he hopes) that his undead will have no desire to kill him. I'll post the spell that lets the undead trot about when I'm through with it. Its a variant (I guess) of Bernhart's Animus, that allows non-living entities the ability to move themselves (visions of self-cocking crossbows, and evil daggers that creep about creating mischief). I welcome any comments (thats why I posted them). Tim Prestero ez007612@hamlet.ucdavis.edu Both spells are neutral. *** BINDING OF ZAHN - VI A major artifact power. Binding of Zahn allows a mage to permanantly "store" a spell in an object. Any spell may be stored, and the stored spell will occupy EGO/Will equal to its complexity level. For example, binding Orb of Zatarra would require 3 points of EGO/Will. The mage must first cast Binding, followed by the spell he wishes to bind. If cast while the object is being made.grown, the Duration is permanant. Otherwise, the duration is indefinite. A CF with either spell will destroy the artifact, and may possibly injure the caster. The caster records his ML with the bound spell, and that becomes the chance bound spell working when cast from the object. A CF casting from the object usually destroys the artifact, although it rarely affects the weilder. The stored spell becomes an "ability" of the resident personality (however feeble the personality), and a user must achieve mental dominance over the attuned object/artifact to use the bound spell. The resident personality cannot cast the spell by itself. To use the power, the weilder must either pay the spell fatigue himself, or the bound spell may draw energy from a source such as Fount of Power or Periapt of Power. Such energy pools must be installed in conjunction with the binding. Bonus Effects ML76+ CF during binding no longer destroys the artifact. Fatigue: (15-SI) x 4.0 Time: (15-SI) hours Range: Touch Duration: Indefinite/Permanant SOUL LINK - VI An enchantment that creates a psychic bond between the caster and an artificial personality, or one bound in an artifact. The empathic bond is such that any harm that befalls the caster will be experienced by the personality as well. If the caster feels pain, the personality feels pain. If the caster dies, there is a good chance the personality will dies as well. If the caster is attuned to the artifact, his death will automatically destroy the personality residing in the attuned artifact and linked to the caster, real or artificial. If the caster should die when not attuned to the artifact, artificial personalities must make a EGOx2 (MS) or EGOx1 (CS) check to survive the trauma. Real personalities bound in the item, or copies of real personalities, must make Willx3 (MS) or Willx2 (CS) checks to survive. Destruction of the artifact (and personality) throws the caster into Aural Shock for (20- Aura) hours. Bonus Effects ML76+ SI links are possible (although the caster may only be attuned to one object). Fatigue: (15-SI) x 3.5 Time: (15-SI) x 3 hours Range: Touch Duration: Indefinite/Permanant From: Klaus Ole Kristiansen Subject: Re: Grey spells If I had artificial servants, who's purpose was to serve and protect me, I would want them to go on working at full efficiency even if I was wounded or knocked out. As an enemy, a necromancer who's army suffers from every wound he takes would be interesting. Klaus O K From: jadominguez@ucdavis.edu (Tim Prestero) Subject: Re: Grey spells From: Klaus Ole Kristiansen Subject: Re: Grey spells > If I had artificial servants, who's purpose was to serve and protect me, > I would want them to go on working at full efficiency even if I was > wounded or knocked out. As an enemy, a necromancer who's army suffers > from every wound he takes would be interesting. Good point. The spells were intended for the more unruly personalities. Got any better ideas for control of mobile artificial personalities? Tim Prestero ez007612@hamlet.ucdavis.edu From: Robert Schmunk Subject: HM submissions I posted a note here a week or two ago about having info on submitting articles/modules to Columbia Games. Since then, I have exchanged another message or two with Robin Crossby and he commented that: 1) They've only accepted a small portion of the submissions they've received. 2) If you're really interested in submitting stuff, it's best to start off with something short. He suggests something like a "Common Knowledge" adventure article for Harnlore. THis way you'll know if you can write stuff that Columbia likes without wasting a lot of your time. 3) Even if your submission is accepted, they will edit. RC commented that some of the published submissions have ended up with more of the content written by Columbia than by the original submitter. Also, the more work Columbia has to put in, the lower the pay the submitter will receive. rbs -- Robert B. Schmunk SPAC, Rice Univ, Box 1892, Houston, TX 77251 USA -- (713) 527-4939 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ...he dreamed of old actors and actresses whom he could not identify; and they were telling him that they were glad to be dead, glad not to see what had become of America, a colorized America. --Wallace Markfield, RADICAL SURGERY From: Jaakko Kankaanp{{ Subject: Re: HM submissions >From: Robert Schmunk > >I posted a note here a week or two ago about having info on submitting >articles/modules to Columbia Games. Since then, I have exchanged another >message or two with Robin Crossby <...> Next time you exhange messages with Crossby, could you please ask him when Harnlore #10 is due, if it is not too much trouble. There are many over here who would like to know. Thanks Jaakko _____ Jaakko Kankaanpaa ! Turku, Finland ! jac@kontu.utu.fi "I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition" From: Robert Schmunk Subject: Harnlore 10 > Next time you exhange messages with Crossby, could you please ask him when > Harnlore #10 is due, if it is not too much trouble. There are many over > here who would like to know. I think I did ask him about it in December. It was being held up because he is apparently trying to do some maps on his computer rather than having an artist to do them. I got the impression that there was little else, if anything, that needed to be done. I won't be asking him again, as I also got the impression that HL 10 is a bit of a touchy subject. Hopefully, some other V-Net Harnline reader will ask him. I also asked about Curse of Hlen (Panaga 3), but I don't think I got any sort of answer on that one. rbs -- Robert B. Schmunk SPAC, Rice Univ, Box 1892, Houston, TX 77251 USA -- (713) 527-4939 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ...he dreamed of old actors and actresses whom he could not identify; and they were telling him that they were glad to be dead, glad not to see what had become of America, a colorized America. --Wallace Markfield, RADICAL SURGERY From: Robert Schmunk Subject: Skill_base calculator For those who are interested, I have an Excel 2.2 spreadsheet, written on the Macintosh, which calculates Skill Bases and CL 0 Spell Bases if given a [N]PC's birthdate, stats and convocation (if applicable). I have uploaded it to the school computer in Binhex 4.0 format and will e-mail a copy to anybody who asks for it. (I hope you have a copy of Binhex or StuffIt you can use to unencode it.) If there are several requests, I'll just post it to the 'List. The encoded version is about 450 lines long (35 kB). [Ed. note: Please contact Robert directly at his email address above if you want the 'program.' If there's confusion, drop me a note, and I'll do my best to clarify. I'll also 'post' a copy of it if Robert gets a number of requests. -Eric ] The spreadsheet takes about 22 kB on the Mac. I'm not guaranteeing that it's bug-free, but I've tested it against a number of my group's PC profiles and there don't seem to be any problems. If I do find problems later, I'll send out updated copies. Also, this is not the same Excel spreadsheet as is available from Harnline;. IMHO, mine is slightly better. It also includes the altered Ritual Skill Bases as described in Harnlore 1. rbs -- Robert B. Schmunk SPAC, Rice Univ, Box 1892, Houston, TX 77251 USA -- (713) 527-4939 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ...he dreamed of old actors and actresses whom he could not identify; and they were telling him that they were glad to be dead, glad not to see what had become of America, a colorized America. --Wallace Markfield, RADICAL SURGERY From: Robert Schmunk Subject: "Sanity" checks During a couple recent gaming sessions, my gaming group has encountered a ghost and a pack of vlasta. Only in the case of the vlasta did they get scared, and that only because the fight was going badly. What concerns me is that the party should have been panicky as soon as the encounters occurred, particularly with the ghost. I suppose I could simluate this with some sort of Will roll on first encounter with a gruesome beast (just as Call of Cthulhu does with Sanity checks), but I wanted to check if any other Harnic GMs have worked out a system for doing so. So...have you? rbs -- Robert B. Schmunk SPAC, Rice Univ, Box 1892, Houston, TX 77251 USA -- (713) 527-4939 From: marten@rieska.oulu.fi (Llwyd ap Cadwaladr) Subject: Creditability of Columbia Games?? [Ed. note: I'm relaying this to all of the people on the list for a couple of reasons. First of all, if any of you have any suggestions for Atte, please contact him(?) through the above address. Secondly, I would appreciate any comments that people have about delivery from Columbia. Thirdly, I know that a couple of you folk frequent the HarnLine BBS, and I would appreciate it if one (or more, to make a statement) would relay this `complaint' to the Powers-that-Be at Columbia. -Eric] Hum, I have a problem - apparently Columbia Games is not overly fond of me. :) Back in December (Dec. 10 or so) I sent a cheque and a filled order form to Columbia Games. Here's the contents: GM Character cards - $8.00 + postage (first item) $5.00 Castles of Harn - $16.00 + postage (second item) $3.00 HarnLore - 4 issues - $25.00 (postage included) In addition I asked if they possibly have a spare copy of Heroth Castle, which was around $4.00 in the old order form. I included Heroth Castle - $10.00 + postage (third item) $3.00 Total sum of $70.00, enclosed in the letter in the form of bank-written cheque. As I mentioned I sent this way back in December. Now I can understand a month's delay but 'tis been over 2 months now. Actually I would not be too worried about this should I not have some unpleasant previous experienses similar to this. Back in -90 I ordered several articles from Columbia Games - the total sum was roughly the same as now. Since I do not have a VISA card of my own I made this order through my friend - Harri Vanhala - who has. We waited for the delivery for 2 (or so..) months. Then we called them. They said that they'll send it soon (they had been waiting for shorkyne to finish - as we know it didn't..:). I asked them to drop off the shorkyne and send the rest of the package to me. They promised to do so. We waited for 4 months. No package. I went through every channel I could - post office, customs, even the police. No package. We phoned to Columbia Games and explained that I had not got the packet. They said they had sent it and promised to send another. Again We waited, but in vain. To *THIS DAY* the package has NOT arrived. NEITHER of them - _if_ they indeed sent another one. Since phonecalls are quite expensive and I felt that letters aren't effective enough (if the phonecall didn't work...) I thought it better not to waste any more money on this. So I let the subject drop. Now, I'm aware that post office sometimes losts a package or two, but it is quite interesting to point out that I've ordered quite a few things from USA and not ONCE had I lost anything - until these two packages. And now it seems to happen again! I am getting curious...and _quite_ annoyed. I am not aware of how to find out what exactly is the problem - and the problem I've got is that while I can prove that they have cashed my cheque, I cannot prove that they've NOT sent anything to me. Could someone better versed in the legislative situation over there (in USA/Candada) to suggest me what to do? Has anyone had any similar experienses? How trustworthy and creditable Columbia Games is?? Could someone forward THIS MESSAGE to Columbia Games??? Yours - Atte Kinnula ============================================================================= #Atte Kinnula c/o Marianne Setala, Rautatienkatu 24 C 36, # University has # # SF-33100 TAMPERE, FINLAND # nothing to do # # # with my words # ============================================================================= From: lrg@carina.cray.com (Lee Gordon) Subject: Re: Sanity checks Status: R > From: Robert Schmunk > Subject: "Sanity" checks > > During a couple recent gaming sessions, my gaming group has encountered a > ghost and a pack of vlasta. Only in the case of the vlasta did they get > scared, and that only because the fight was going badly. What concerns me > is that the party should have been panicky as soon as the encounters > occurred, particularly with the ghost. I suppose I could simluate this > with some sort of Will roll on first encounter with a gruesome beast > (just as Call of Cthulhu does with Sanity checks), but I wanted to > check if any other Harnic GMs have worked out a system for doing so. > So...have you? Yes. Our group has roughly implemented the Call of Cthulhu sanity checks. I don't have the exact details with me, but it works something like this. The PC has a sanity stat, under personality, and it's initial value is: ((INT + WILL) / 2 ) * 5 (We've also done AURA * 5) Losing sanity ------------- Each horrific creature (or event) has a rating for its effect on sanity. For example, a ghoul might be a 3, or a mutilated corpse might be 1. When you come up against some horrific instance, you make a sanity check. With a success, you are unaffected (or with some creatures you receive only half of the effect). With a failure, you lose 1dN, where N is the rating of that creature. For ghouls, 1d3, and so on. Critical failures can double the loss. If you lose 10% of your sanity from a single encounter, you become temporarily insane, and may develop a permanent phobia. If you lose 20% of you sanity, you become permanently insane. Gaining sanity -------------- There are two ways to gain sanity. The first is to defeat the creature forcing the sanity check. Please note that defeat doesn't necessarily mean kill. If you prevent the creature from achieving its objective, you can gain sanity. You gain sanity at the same rate that you lose it. For ghouls, you regain 1d3 when you defeat them. The other way to gain sanity is to work a skill up to 90%. For each skill above 90%, you gain one point of sanity. You can gain at most one point per skill, so bouncing from 89% to 90% in the same skill will only get you a total of 1 sanity point. This method of gaining sanity is supposed to represent gaining confidence in oneself because of great prowess in skills. Becoming unaffected ------------------- After you have had a certain number of encounters with the horrific instances, they cease to be horrific (to you). The number of encounters when this occurs is the same as their ratings. So, if you witness ghouls on 3 separate occasions, the 4th one won't bother you. Note here, it isn't 3 ghouls, it's 3 sets of ghouls. ================================================================================ I should let you know that these sanity rules are still under development. We've had them implemented for a year, but we don't end up making sanity checks every time we play. Another thing is that some creatures have effects that differ from the guidelines above. For some creatures, defeating it doesn't gain you back sanity until you are unaffected. Anyway, hopefully these can be used as a framework to implement sanity checks in your campaign. If you have any comments or thoughts about improving this, please let me know. -Lee From: Robert Schmunk Subject: Credibility of Columbia Games?? Atte Kinnula writes that he has had trouble with a mail order that he sent to Columbia. The contents were: > Back in December (Dec. 10 or so) I sent a cheque and a filled order form > to Columbia Games. Here's the contents: > GM Character cards - $8.00 + postage (first item) $5.00 > Castles of Harn - $16.00 + postage (second item) $3.00 > HarnLore - 4 issues - $25.00 (postage included) > > In addition I asked if they possibly have a spare copy of Heroth Castle, > which was around $4.00 in the old order form. I included > Heroth Castle - $10.00 + postage (third item) $3.00 Looking through this list, I immediately know there are going to be problems. My copy of the Columbia order from (dated 3/91) states that Castles of Harn and Heroth Castle are out of print. I doubt that they have come back in print during the intervening 10-11 months. And of course, it's been two years since an issue of Harnlore came out. Harnlore 10 has been 'imminent' for about the past 4-6 months, but I'll believe it exists when I see it. Whether this order for issues includes back issues, I don't know, but it's my impression that Columbia doesn't have many back in HLs in stock. When they'll get around to print HL 11, 12 and 13 I don't even want to think about. > As I mentioned I sent this way back in December. Now I can understand > a month's delay but 'tis been over 2 months now. I ordered stuff from Columbia twice last year, getting Melderyn, Tome of Gray, and Kanday. They came in about 6 weeks. Atte also describes never receiving an order he placed with Columbia back in 1990, despite calling the company up once or twice. As I've never had trouble with a mail order co. before (whether it be Columbia or someone else), I don't know what to suggest as a course of action. Hopefully, somebody else does. One possibility is contacting Robin Crossby through the Vervan-Net Harnline echo, and I will look around to see if I can get hold of a list of European nodes. Unfortunately, I believe that Crossby only handles the creative end of things, while Tom Dalgliesh handles all the business. I say unfortunately because I haven't seen Dalgliesh's name on a Harnline posting since last summer. One other thing, I recall seeing on V-Net Harnline last summer a number of complaints that Columbia had billed some autoship customers for some items *before* they got around to shipping them, so long before that people were receiving the credit card bills before the product. Oh, and something else. Has anybody actually seen a copy of Odivshe or Savorya in a *game store*? I know that authoship customers received them month or two ago, but I'd prefer to get them through a store. rbs -- Robert B. Schmunk SPAC, Rice Univ, Box 1892, Houston, TX 77251 USA -- (713) 527-4939 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ...he dreamed of old actors and actresses whom he could not identify; and they were telling him that they were glad to be dead, glad not to see what had become of America, a colorized America. --Wallace Markfield, RADICAL SURGERY From: Paul Stratton (Sierra Geophysics, Inc.) Subject: Harn, SCA, & Heralds Greetings to Atte (and Llwyd) from Paul (and Drogo), My experience with Columbia has been pretty similar in some ways. Columbia takes a long time to ship orders even to me. And, I only live a 2.5 hour drive from them! Two month turn around for orders is about average and a lot of their stuff is always out of print. Last time I received some stuff from them around Christmas, they were having trouble keeping stuff in print because their entire cash flow was going to pay for printing the new products. These guys all hold down regular jobs to make a living. Columbia is done in their spare time. Did you ask them what portion of your order was shipped? Columbia has a past history of shipping partial orders over several weeks or months. Paul Stratton paul@sierra.com From: ejanderson@ucdavis.edu (Eric J. Anderson) Subject: Re: Sanity checks I think that the best solution is for the players to be better role-players. In my harn game, the players travelled through a supposedly haunted wood and encountered some spirits, One of the players laughed, and said, "There only ghosts, they cant hurt you!" The other two were screaming and generally acting like they saw spirits. Perhaps you should let the players find out what makes ghosts scary, ie have one of them attack the party while they are by themselves, (take the player in another room or something so they dont feel smug, and comfortable) Another soulution might be simple stat drains. (will and intelligence come to mind, perhaps constitution if the character is actually touched...) In other words, prove to the players, (not the characters) that ghosts and other supernatural stuff SHOULD be scary. -E. John Anderson From: Robert Schmunk Subject: Re: Sanity checks Thanks to Lee Gordon for the description of his sanity system. I hadn't actually considered sanity gains and losses, just a run-in-gibbering-fear check, but his system sounds like a good base to start from. I should also mention that while my PCs were pretty blase when they encountered the ghost (Merren the bandit, from the tale told at the end of the Burzyn article) and followed it around, they have been a bit more cautious in one respect. One of the PCs has Disembodiment skill and is now using it much less frequently. He hasn't had to fight to regain his body yet, but was alerted to the fact that the rules allow for a nearby spirit to take over while he's out of the house, so to speak. -- Robert B. Schmunk SPAC, Rice Univ, Box 1892, Houston, TX 77251 USA -- (713) 527-4939 [Ed. note: I'm 'gluing' three articles together to make this article worth the header space and bandwidth. They all say about the same thing, so..... -Eric] From: samatheis@ucdavis.edu (Sean A. Matheis) Subject: Odivshe & Savorya From: ccmsean@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu (Sean A. Matheis) Subject: Odivshe and Savorya I've seen both tomes in a store in Sacramento. In fact, said store had all of the Shek-Pvar tomes (believe it or not), along with some other modules/suppliments. As for delivery, Columbia was rather quick when I ordered, but the stuff i ordered was standard stuff. -Sean ccmsean@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu =========================================================================== From: "Lord Krieg" Subject: _Savorya_ and _Odivshe_ Robert Schmunk asks: -------------------- Oh, and something else. Has anybody actually seen a copy of Odivshe or Savorya in a *game store*? I know that authoship customers received them month or two ago, but I'd prefer to get them through a store. -------------------- I've seen copies of both here in Southern California. The game store I saw them in had a complete set of all the Shek Pvar stuff. In fact, its been out at least since December (which is when I bought my copy of Savorya). Lord Krieg Internet: cvadsaav@csupomona.edu America Online: Empr Krieg =========================================================================== From: e90mhg@efd.lth.se (Mikael Hegardt) Subject: Tome of Savorya & Odivshe I phoned my local gamestore a week ago, and they claimed that the Tomes Robert asks for was on their shelves. Hopefully I'll get the material evidence for this in a week or two... ------------------------------------------------------------------ Mikael Hegardt Lunds Institute of Technology Sweden E-Mail: e90mhg@efd.lth.se ------------------------------------------------------------------ From: e90mhg@efd.lth.se (Mikael Hegardt) Subject: Re: Sanity checks I agree with John Anderson tthat the best solution is ROLEPLAY. I feel that the additions suggested by Robert complicacte things to much. At least my main objective is to get the players to Roleplay - the rules in Harnmaster are only to be used as guidelines. This is, by the way, one of the major faults with Ad&D - to much rules, rules that cover to many aspects of the players actions. The detail ed rules tend to burden the roleplaying aspect of the game. ------------------------------------------------------------ Mikael Hegardt Lunds Institute of Technology Sweden E-Mail: e90mhg@efd.lth.se ----------------------------------------------------------- From: lrg@carina.cray.com (Lee Gordon) Subject: Re: Sanity checks Status: R > From: e90mhg@efd.lth.se (Mikael Hegardt) > Subject: Re: Sanity checks > > I agree with John Anderson tthat the best solution is ROLEPLAY. > I feel that the additions suggested by Robert complicacte things to much. > At least my main objective is to get the players to Roleplay - the rules > in Harnmaster are only to be used as guidelines. > This is, by the way, one of the major faults with Ad&D - to much rules, > rules that cover to many aspects of the players actions. The detail > ed rules tend to burden the roleplaying aspect of the game. While it is true that the sanity rules add another level of complexity, they work fairly well in our campaign. The PCs exist in a rather mundane world, and only occasionally come up against any undead or supernatural beings. In this context, the rules are fine. If you run a campaign with lots of 'horrific' creatures, then using the rules would be burdensome. The advantage of using such rules is that they help encourage proper roleplaying. If the player knows that by fighting these types of creatures, the PC could be permanently affected, then the player also tends to fear these creatures. The rules also give a way of quantifying how scary different types of monsters are. Say you have ghouls rated at 3, and the Balrog rated at 20. Very few PCs, regardless of their skill, would willingly take on the Balrog, but the ghouls wouldn't be a big deal. Both creatures are scary, but the Balrog inspires more fear. Anyway, food for thought. -Lee From: Klaus Ole Kristiansen Subject: Re: Sanity Checks >>Yes. Our group has roughly implemented the Call of Cthulhu sanity checks. >>I don't have the exact details with me, but it works something like this. >> >>The PC has a sanity stat, under personality, and it's initial value is: >> >> ((INT + WILL) / 2 ) * 5 (We've also done AURA * 5) >> >>Losing sanity >>------------- >> >> Each horrific creature (or event) has a rating for its effect on sanity. >>For example, a ghoul might be a 3, or a mutilated corpse might be 1. >> >>... >> >>Gaining sanity >>-------------- >> >> There are two ways to gain sanity. The first is to defeat the creature >>forcing the sanity check. Please note that defeat doesn't necessarily mean >>kill. If you prevent the creature from achieving its objective, you can >>gain sanity. You gain sanity at the same rate that you lose it. For ghouls, >>you regain 1d3 when you defeat them. How do you defeat a mutilated corpse? Klaus O K From: lrg@carina.cray.com (Lee Gordon) Subject: Re: Sanity Checks > How do you defeat a mutilated corpse? That was one of the exceptions... -Lee From: Robert Schmunk Subject: Columbia product status' So a few days I commented here on the 'list that some Columbia products were out of stock. Of course I was using old info. I called them today to ask if Rethem might be available again, and along the way found out that: HEROTH CASTLE: in stock, order now, operators are standing by. CASTLES OF HARN: at the printer, copies should be available in about 2 weeks. HARNLORE 10: at the printer, copies should be available in about two weeks; this is a double-sized issue with some color plates. If you're one of those people who sent in one of those cards entitling you to a free copy of HL (they were inside copies of HARNWORLD I think) and haven't gotten it yet, you're name should be on a list to get a free HL 10. HARNLORE 11: mostly written; when it goes to the printer depends on how sales of Harnlore 10 go. (The fellow who answered the phone at Columbia says that one of the reason for delays with HL 10 was that HL 9 did not sell very quickly.) CURSE OF HLEN: like a fool, I've forgotten the status on this one, but it must not be available yet, since I didn't order a copy. And of course, RETHEM: well, I'm still out of luck. rbs -- Robert B. Schmunk SPAC, Rice Univ, Box 1892, Houston, TX 77251 USA -- (713) 527-4939 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ...he dreamed of old actors and actresses whom he could not identify; and they were telling him that they were glad to be dead, glad not to see what had become of America, a colorized America. --Wallace Markfield, RADICAL SURGERY From: Klaus Ole Kristiansen Subject: Re: Sanity Checks From: lrg@carina.cray.com (Lee Gordon) Subject: Re: Sanity Checks > How do you defeat a mutilated corpse? That was one of the exceptions... Exception in what way? How do you regain the SAN lost from seeing a mutilated corpse? I take it it that it is not the case that you can regain the san lost by meeting even the most horrible monster, but SAN lost due to a more mundane horror like a mutilated corpse can never be regained. Klaus O K From: lrg@carina.cray.com (Lee Gordon) Subject: Re: Sanity Checks > From: Klaus Ole Kristiansen > Subject: Re: Sanity Checks > > > From: lrg@carina.cray.com (Lee Gordon) > Subject: Re: Sanity Checks > > > How do you defeat a mutilated corpse? > > That was one of the exceptions... > > Exception in what way? How do you regain the SAN lost from > seeing a mutilated corpse? I take it it that it is not > the case that you can regain the san lost by meeting even > the most horrible monster, but SAN lost due to a more mundane > horror like a mutilated corpse can never be regained. Roughly, yes. The sanity rating of a mutilated corpse is 1. When you first encounter such an item, it has a sanity impact. All viewers make a sanity check. With a success, no effect. With a failure, they lose a point of sanity. The next time they run into a mutilated corpse, it has NO effect on sanity (because the rating was 1), regardless if they made or failed their first sanity check. Again, this is really an anomily in the sanity rules. If you don't like the thought of losing sanity by seeing horrid "mundane" things, throw it out. Most sanity checks are caused by encountering creatures, which make it straightforward. If you encountered a wraith (rating 6), you'd make a sanity check, and lose 1d6 if you failed. Upon defeating the creature, you could regain sanity. After 5 more encounters with wraiths, they'd cease to have a sanity impact on you. Our group also has sanity losses for reading books, or hearing stories, things like that. These losses aren't regained by "defeating" the books (or storytellers). An example of such an event could be you find a tome in the bedroom of an evil noble. You see that it is a book on the occult. You read the book, and gain rolls in the occult skill (one we added), but failing your sanity check, you lose 1d3 points. By the same token, you can gain sanity back by having experiences which strengthen your faith in the world. For example, our party just finished role playing a trip deep into the heart of Faerie. There we met the Seelie Queen and her court. The overall experience of knowing that something that good exists allowed us to gain sanity. We use the sanity skill rather loosely, and it is up to the GM to determine the specifics (effects of CS, MS, MF, and CF, how much sanity is lost, and how much can be regained) during play. This is NOT to say that the decisions are arbitrary. We have guidelines, but sometimes exceptions arise. -Lee From: jadominguez@ucdavis.edu Subject: New Spells With the exception of Hasan's Mists, these spells are all used to make undead. I wanted a system for making skeletons and zombies, and this is what I came up with. I'm interested in hearing suggestions for further bonus effects for Maugrim's Awareness. Also, I haven't decided whether the Animation spell should be Neutral or Fyvrian. Tim Prestero. ez007612@hamlet.ucdavis.edu --------------------------- HASAN'S MISTS (Odivshe - I) This spell creates a thick, obscuring cloud of mist, which limits visibility, and muffles sound. The cloud occupies SIx10 cubic feet, and unless somehow restricted, the cloud forms a 10' layer on the ground, and then spreads out. The cloud deforms to fit in the surroundings, an important consideration when casting it indoors or underground. At base effects, the cloud is centered on the caster or focus. Vision in the cloud is reduced to two feet, and sounds are muffled and distorted, giving a -30 penalty to any attempts to discern the direction of a sound, or the nature of the sound. If cast in an area smaller than the volume of the cloud, the cloud gets thicker, halving visibility, and increasing the hearing penalty by a multiple of 1.5 for every extra layer of cloud covering. The vapors are rather heavy and dissipate slowly even if Hasan's Mists is cast in a drafty location. Duration is ML (MS) or MLx3 (CS) minutes, divided by wind Force (treat Force 0 as Force 1). Bonus Effects ML41+ The cloud can move with the caster. ML56+ The caster can have the cloud originate at any point within ML feet. The cloud is stationary when cast at range. ML71+ The caster can move the cloud around at range, provided it remains in view, and within ML feet. Fatigue: (15-SI)x1 Time: (15-SI) seconds Range: Touch/ML56+ ML feet Duration: MS: ML mins./CS: ML x 3 mins. MAUGRIM'S AWARENESS (Neutral - II) A major artifact power which grants an object/artifact mundane senses. At low levels, the spell grants either Eyesight, Smell/Taste, Hearing, or Touch, at d6+SI, 2d6+SI with a CS. Bonus levels allow the caster to imbue the artifact with more esoteric senses. Awareness does not grant the object any special powers of communication with its wielder. Maugrim's Awareness occupies one point of EGO/Will. Multiple senses can be installed within one artifact, provided there is sufficient EGO. When the caster reaches higher MLs, he can attempt to re-cast the spell to improve existing senses, with the new spell having the same Duration as the old. The objects new senses can be muffled much like a normal person's, by covering the object, or putting out the lights. Objects with a sense of Touch can suffer injury points, as well as shock. They also experience discomfort due to excessive heat or cold. Bonus Effects ML71+ The spell can create a "life" sense, that has a chance of detecting living beings nearby. The chance of detection is reduced by one per foot of distance between the artifact and the living object. ML76+ The spell can be used to install an Aura, insofar as Aura is used as a sensitory attribute (which it sometimes is, especially in the absence of Sensitivity). ML86+ The spell can create an expanded vision sense, that sees in temperature gradients. This sense may require GM discretion. Fatigue: (15-SI)x2.0 Time: (15-SI)x0.5 hours Range: Touch Duration: Indefinite/Permanent MAUGRIM'S IMPROVEMENTS (Fyrvia or Neutral - III) A major artifact power. This spell improves the physical statistics of an object animated through Maugrim's Animus [Necromancy/V]. The caster can only improve one statistic per casting, and each statistic may only be improved once in this way. The spell requires two points of EGO/Will per casting. The target statistic is improved by SI/2 (MS) or SI (CS). If cast while the object is being grown/made, the duration is permanent. Otherwise, the duration is Indefinite. Bonus Effects ML76+ Spell may be cast as a temporary enchantment, with a Time of (15-SI) x 4 seconds, and a Duration of SI minutes. It cannot, however, improve statistics already improved by any version of the spell. The Range is still touch. ML91+ The short-term version of the spell may be cast at a Range of ML feet, provided the target is within line of sight. Fatigue: (15-SI)x2.5 Time: (15-SI)x0.5 hours Range: Touch/ML91+ ML feet* Duration: Indefinite/Permanent/see ML76+ MAUGRIM'S ANIMUS (Fyvria or Neutral - V) (Robert Schmunk and Tim Prestero) A major artifact power. This enchantment endows artificial and resident personalities with the ability to move themselves. The object can only move where it has joints, and it must have some rational means for moving itself around. Animating a vase, for example, will have somewhat less than spectacular results, as the vase has no moving parts. The ability to sense its environment must be supplied through some other means. Animus requires four points of EGO/Will. If cast while the object is being made/grown, the duration is Permanent. Otherwise, the duration is Indefinite. The spell grants a Strength of 1d6+SI, as well as a Dexterity, Agility, and Speed of 1d6+SI where applicable. On a CS, one of those statistics is raised to 2d6+SI, at the mage's choice. Due to the nature of the animation, the Endurance statistic is not applicable, as such entities will not get tired, and do not feel injuries. For purposes of initiative, etc, animated objects are treated as having an END of 18. In the case of "real spirits", for example those captured or created with Soul Steal (or some variant), skill MLs are reduced, first, as per ML Decline (Enriched Magic - Shek Pvar 28), depending upon the amount of time since the spirit last had a body, and secondly, that new ML is reduced an additional 10%, due to the spirit's unfamiliarity with the new body. False Souls open skills at OML, depending upon appropriate training. The caster can animate up to SIxSIx10 pounds. With regards to objects consisting of multiple pieces, say for example, a skeleton, the caster must choose a "control piece", in which the personality is said to reside. If any of the component bones of the example skeleton are smashed during Duration, all bones which trace linkage to the control piece through the broken bone will immediately fall from the skeleton. (Thus, the easiest way to destroy an animated skeleton is to smash the control-bone.). Bonus Effects (none) Fatigue: (15-SI)x3.5 Time: (15-SI) hours Range: Touch Duration: Indefinite/Permanent From: Robert Schmunk Subject: Columbia products (!?) It's been a long time since I saw any activity here on Harnlist, so I thought I'd chip in a little useless information. Maybe somebody will bite and a discussion will get started. Anyway, after a two month wait, my copy of Castles came in the mail from Columbia. As usual, an order form was enclosed, with the usual tempting glimpses of new products with their mythical release dates. These items were: BattleLust Mar/92 (yeah, right) Castles of Orbaal Apr/92 Curse of Panaga Feb/92 Nasty, Brutish and Short Aug/92 Ibanvaal Jul/92 Cities of Shorkyne May/92 Trierzon Nov/92 I should also mention that this particular copy of the order from is dated Jan 1, 92. Looking through this list, the item at the top of my purchase list would be Curse of Panaga and I would be interested in hearing if any of the autoship customers have actually seen a copy of it yet. Cities of Shorkyne is also of interest, particularly if it contains Chelemby. Hopefully the fact that I just got my copy of Castles means that Marten Kinnula also received his (you may remember that he posted a note here several months ago about his problems receiving mail order material). At the time that I ordered Castles, it and HarnLore 10 were both supposedly either just going to the printer or just getting back. Perhaps this also means that we'll be seeing HL 10 realsoonnow. Well, hopefully I'll get my doctoral thesis done soon so that I can go back to running my campaign. I have some players who were about to meet the Nolah in 100 Bushels, and I'd hate to delay the introduction much longer. :-) rbs -- Robert B. Schmunk SPAC, Rice Univ, Box 1892, Houston, TX 77251 USA -- (713) 527-4939 From: e90mhg@efd.lth.se (Mikael Hegardt) Subject: Harn Treasure and other... First a question: The "Castles" product mentioned by Robert ... Is this a reprint of "Castles of Harn" or what...? And the another question: When tdid Columbia advertise "Battlelust" the first time? As far as I know, it must have been in '87 or '86...? Finnally: The magic items and treasure departement in the Harnmaster rulebook is starting to feel "used". So if anyone has suggestions or even devised new ones, why don't you send em to me. I'll try to compile them and catalogue the material and send it over to anyone interested... ----------------------------------------------------------------- Greetings from Mr. Spock Mikael Hegardt Lunds Institute of Technology, Sweden E-Mail: e90mhg@efd.lth.se ---------------------------------------------------------------- "I'm fed up to the ears with old men dreaming up wars for young men to die in." -- George McGovern From: Jaakko Kankaanp{{ Subject: Re: Columbia products Subj: Columbia Games mail order rip-off >Hopefully the fact that I just got my copy of Castles means that >Marten Kinnula also received his (you may remember that he posted >a note here several months ago about his problems receiving >mail order material). Let's hope. Considering my latest experience with the Columbia Games mail order service, I have to say I don't think it's very likely, though. My story is briefly as follows: There are a few of us Finnish Harn GMs (me included), who decided to mail order some stuff from CG. Since one of us has a father who travels a lot and has a friend in Toronto, Canada, we devised a cunning plan: the Canadian friend would mail order the stuff from CG with his credit card, the father would carry it over the Atlantic to us, and we would pay the Canadian friend back with a money order. From the point of CG, it would be nothing but a regular domestic order. That way, we thought, we would minimise the fuss and the expenses. But we didn't figure the CG mail order service. What we ordered was some PC sheets, GM cards, Heroth Castle, Rethem (should it be reprinted by then), Evael (should it be reprinted by then), set of Pilots' maps, 2 copies of Castles and 3 copies of Curse of Panaga (which according to the schedule would have been available then). What we got was considerably less. Instead of Rethem, we got a poor Xerox of the real thing Instead of Evael, we got a poor Xerox of EH12 + Pesino Instead of three copies of Castles, we only got one And no copies on Curse of Panaga (presumably because it was still not available) And, to top it off, they charged A FULL PRICE ACCORDING TO THINGS ORDERED, NOT THINGS THEY SENT US. That means we had to pay $16 for a Xerox of Rethem, $14 for a Xerox of EH12 + Pesino (not Evael, since the Evael article was missing), and A FULL PRICE for two non-existent copies of Castles and two non-existent copies of Curse of P. That means they charged us about $50 for things we never got, plus charged a ridiculous price for Xeroxes not ordered, and on top of that one of the Xeroxes was incorrect. Now that is a thing you should definitely NOT do to a credit card customer. It is outrageous, to say the least. Does anybody know what has happened to Columbia Games? Are they in such dire straits that they will instantly rip off your money once you give them your credit card number? Or are they just plain incompetent? I am writing letters of complaint to Crossby, Dalgliesh and the Mail Order Dpt. I am also going to publish my complaint over the net in rec.games.frp. Hopefully that will make them clean up their act. One additional note: The single copy of Castles we got looked somewhat suspicious. The paper was poor quality, the text looked more like Xeroxed than decently printed and the colour map plates were one-sided (there was no black and white player map on the reverse, that is). Does anyone have similar experiences? I dearly love the FRP material CG has published. There is nothing better available. But they must stop treating their customers like this. Jaakko _____ Jaakko Kankaanpaa ! Turku, Finland ! jac@kontu.utu.fi "I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition" From: samatheis@ucdavis.edu (Sean A. Matheis) Subject: Mail Order Items Hmm...that's bizarre. (in regard to Jaakko Kankaanpaa's story). I've only used MailOrder once since a few stores in the Sacramento/Davis area carry Harn Stuff and our (ex)GM is on the auto-ship list. I got rather prompt service. The one complaint I had was the service over the phone. It seems either N.Robin or Tom think they can run their business in a very lax, we-don't-care-when-we-take-calls fashion. The receptionist (for a lack of a better term) said that only Tom could take orders, and he apparantly went on a 2 and 1/2 hour lunch trip when I was trying to order. Had it not been for the 1-800 number, I don't think I'd have bothered trying a second time. Sean --------------------------------------------------------------------- |Sean Matheis, Student Consultant |ccmsean@rocky.ucdavis.edu | |Computing Services, UC Davis |samatheis@ucdavis.edu | |******************************************|**************************| |"In Gods we trust. All others pay cash." |--------------------------| | -Steven Brust: _Phoenix_ |#include "disclmr.h" | --------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Schmunk Subject: Columbia mail order Re: the recent postings about Columbia mail order. Yes, the castle item I just got was CASTLES OF HARN. That and HEROTH have just been reprinted, and a very good printing job it was. There were a number of items listed on my order form as still out-of- print, but the only two I can recall right off hand are RETHEM and IVINIA. I've generally had good luck ordering items straight from Columbia, and whoever has answered the phone (two times a man and once a woman) was very straghtforward about telling me which products were not available. The one thing that has failed to impress me is that they seem to enter charges against your credit card immediately, even when they acknowledge that they won't ship the product for a few weeks. However, the stories posted here by Marten and Jaakko seem to fit in with a couple complaints which appeared in the V-net Harn echo last year. rbs -- Robert B. Schmunk SPAC, Rice Univ, Box 1892, Houston, TX 77251 USA -- (713) 527-4939 From: jason@hermes.cray.com (Jason D Parker) Subject: Re: Columbia mail order I bought Harn over the Holidays and sent in the little card to Columbia, but never heard back from them. Apparently, according to this thread, Columbia does have a catalog and direct sales. Can someone tell me how to plug into this? Do they still publish their newsletter? (How can I get back issues?) Harnic newcommer... Jason Parker jason@cray.com -- From: Robert Schmunk Subject: Re: Columbia mail order jason@hermes.cray.com (Jason D Parker) writes: > I bought Harn over the Holidays and sent in the little card to > Columbia, but never heard back from them. Apparently, according > to this thread, Columbia does have a catalog and direct sales. > Can someone tell me how to plug into this? I don't know that I'd call it a catalog, but yes they do have direct sales. In fact, it is my understanding that Tom Dalgliesh, the owner of Columbia and publisher of Harn, does not like the cut that game distributors take and prefers the direct sales route. However, what with the complaints I've heard from some folks and also in the length of time it takes for things to come in the mail, I'd be very cautious about actually using it. I've only used it to get items that the local stores absolutely did not have; luckily, the local stores had most Harn stuff. The number is 1-800-663-8453, but just remember Jaakko and Marten's complaints and be sure that it's clear what you want and that it's available. > Do they still > publish their newsletter? (How can I get back issues?) As I recall, the card in Harnworld entitles you to a free issue of Harnlore, sort of a newsletter/magazine. The few issues that have come out so far weren't bad; they're a bit expensive as there are no advertisements within. Rumor is that HL 10 will be much better. Unhappily, Columbia has done miserably about actually publishing the damn thing. It's been two years since HL 9 came out and they've been promising HL 10 for about a year now. The last time I called in an order, they claimed that HL 10 was going/gone to the printer and that they already had the material for HL 11. That was over two months ago and I'm still waiting. The only way you can get back issues is photocopies, either paying or Columbia for them or making a deal with another member of this mailing list. rbs -- Robert B. Schmunk SPAC, Rice Univ, Box 1892, Houston, TX 77251 USA -- (713) 527-4939