-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: advent@ukc.ac.uk
Subject:  Harvest Time


A simple question - has anyone seen, or devised a simple method for
quantifying the harvest in Harn? I know good / bad harvests can be
generated by the 'events' table, but I wanted somnething to give a value
for the harvest every year.

The situation is this - the  party (well, the Knight in the party) has
recieved a grant of land. I know the acreage, and what crops it will
produce on average, but how about variation?

The main effect would be weather, though rather than studying the
weather for the entire year for this region, I was thinking of
abstracting this to a die roll, and then adding modifiers any
exceptional weather, ie thunderstorms at harvest, or a draught in the
summer.

I was thinking of the 'random weather bit being something like

  ( 10(d10) - 55 )

I suppose the 'agriculture' skill of the farmers should also come into
it, something like

 roll against average of agriculture skill of each family head

<cs> crop up by 10%
<ms> crop up by 5%
<mf> no change
<cf> crop down by 5%

and use this as a further modifier on the above multiplier.

giving a total effect of...

 ( 10(d10) - 55 + spec. weather mod + agriculture mod ) x average yield

comments?

--
Steve

-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: advent@ukc.ac.uk
Subject:  Weather Generation


Has anyone out there got an automatic weather generator for Harn? I've
been thinking of a program that effectively prints out a calendar with
the weather for each watch of the day on it. It should be a simple
program based around a few random numbers, and a bit of fancy output,
though if its been done before, and is available I'd rather not
duplicate it!

Steve

-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: lee@sq.com (Liam Quin)

| A simple question - has anyone seen, or devised a simple method for
| quantifying the harvest in Harn? I know good / bad harvests can be
| generated by the 'events' table, but I wanted somnething to give a value
| for the harvest every year.

It is a function of the Land Quality of the area times the Weather Index,
as I recall.  The relevant stuff is under MANOR, from EH 3 or 4 or wherever.

I'll mail you a troff version if you don't have it.

Lee
-- 
Liam R. E. Quin,  lee@sq.com, SoftQuad Inc., Toronto, +1 (416) 963-8337
    `A wrong that cannot be repaired must be transcended'
						Ursula K. Le Guin, in _Tehanu_



-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: advent@ukc.ac.uk
Subject:  telumar locks / clone discussion


I haven't seen replies to either of the following, so here goes my
tuppence worth...

From: Klaus Ole Kristiansen <klaus@freja.diku.dk>
 paraphrasing - how does a reasearcher open the magical locks in Telumar?
 Create a spell? General for all locks or a spell per lock?
 Convocation? Neutral? Savoryan? (a Lyahvi mage is investigating them)

I like the idea that a mage would have to develope a spell for each
lock, since this would give the right sort of time-span to fit in with
Colombia's description, possibly even a bit too fast?

Does the new 'grey magics' have any hints on taking down permanent
magic? If so this may be appropriate to consider...

Convocation: looks strongly like it would be neutral to me. You are
after all dispelling an existing spell.

Another way to regard it is as a psionic type effect, since the
earthmasters seem to have been strongly into aura and mind effects. From
this you could say that the 'lock' is some sort of mental effect, and
you use a Savoryan spell to neutralise this effect, thus punching a
whole through the spell for the caster to pass. I don't really like this
option.

As to why a Lyahvi mage is working on it - well, I can see why he likes
the place with all those light effects, but can't really see a Lyahvi
spell getting him through. Perhaps he's really a Grey Mage, who was once
Lyahvi ;-)

My players haven't got near any Earthmaster Sites so I haven't had this
problem, but from reading descriptions of such places I assumed that the
magical locks weren't absolute blocks, they simply served to stop the
any who weren't suitable from passing. As such they would be magical
devices to which those who wished to pass would have to attune. Those
who built the locks could pass fairly easily, the lesser races (ie the
players) would get to roll something like 1xAURA per month of study of
that particular lock. This would then allow either just the caster to
pass, or leave the 'door' open for a set period of time. The atuned
person would then get something like 1xAURA per minute on later attempts
at that lock, but would have to start again on others.

I'm undecided now between my initial attunement scheme, or neutralising
magic. I'd tend to favor the attunement since I see the Earthmaster
artifacts as substantially different to the convocational approach to
magic. The Earthmasters were not Shek-Pvar, instead they were immensely
powerful mentalists in my opinion!

========================

-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ccm007@pollux.ucdavis.edu (Johnny B.)
 One way Panag could come back is through the use of clones. If that's
 possible, what level spell is that so I could get it. =;-)

OK, so it was said in jest, but it is an interresting question.

Clone and Resurrect are the two real 'save character' type spells in
most systems, so how about in Harn?

Harnmaster allows resurection, only a few priests have the ritual,
however any psionic healer can give it a go. I also let people try
divine intervention to get a resurrection, but applying the 'view of
relevance of call' modifiers. Morgath resurrect someone? heavy minuses!

Clone would be I suppose Fyvrian for the body, and the growth,
regeneration and so on from the piece of the orriginal. To get the mind
and memories (which wont be keyed into the DNA of the sample) would
require a Savoryan spell, while to speed the whole process up - a
Peleahn haste like spell? ore just rely on the accelerated growth of
the Fyvrian component.

Well, we definately now have a multi-convocational spell, so it can only
be developed, or even cast, by a Grey Mage. Level? well, I could guess
about the component parts, somewhere in the 5-7 range I'd guess, but
what about duration?

I suppose this is really 'healing magic' which is normally permanent
(or instantaneous or whatever), but you usually need to <cs>, and have
made the item yourself to get permanent effects. A warped sense of
humour (ie me) could really appreciate an indefinate duration clone!

The final comment (I promise) is that I wouldn't allow this really as a
method of achieving immortality anyway, since I believe the character is
not duplicated, just a body and set of memories. As soon as the clone
was developed it would have its own identity, which could exist in
parallel with the source, and hence cannot be the same. I also believe
the Gods would start pushing the probabilities around (so this spell
weas never learnt) if the mages start playing with immortality....

Steve




-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: lee@sq.com (Liam Quin)
Subject: Harvest Home in Harn, Hurrah! (groan)

Maybe this will help the person who wanted a harvest generator...:  this one
is a lazy implementation of the Manor rules.  It doesn't keep track of
anything from one season to the next, (I have one that does, but it is very
messy and only does the thf form). But it is a start.  Note that Gross Acres
(-a) is a very important number.  More than any other.  You might also want to
let the player improve the fief, by spending gross Acres * Fief Index *
0.1 + Gross Acres * FiefIndex  0.2 (Labour & kind, but it's all "d" in this
program!)  FI should start at 1.0, and LQ comes from the appropriate EH
page, as does the number of serf and rural freemen households (SF & RF).

Have fun.

Lee
lee@sq.com (the barefoot programmer (today, anyway!) (grin))

These two files are Harvest.c and Makefile

Makefile -- cut here --
# Makefile for Liam Quin's Harn Harvest program...
CFLAGS=-g -DBSD
Harvest: Harvest.o
	$(CC) $(CFLAGS) -o Harvest Harvest.o -lm
-- snip --
(there must be a tab at the start of the indented line)

start of Harvest.c -- cut here -- delete this line -- snip at the end, too!
/* Program to generate Harnian weather.
 * Liam Quin, 1991
 *
 * $Id: Harvest.c,v 1.15 91/03/17 10:32:38 lee Dist1 $
 *
 */

#include <stdio.h>

#ifdef BSD
# define strrchr rindex
# include <strings.h> /* may need strings.h instead */
#else
# include <string.h> /* may need strings.h instead */
# define srandom srand
# define random rand
#endif

#ifdef __STDC__
# define PROTO(type, name, args) type name args 
# define Assert(e) MyAssert(e, __FILE__, __LINE__, #e)
#else
# define PROTO(type, name, args) type name()
# define Assert(e) MyAssert(e, __FILE__, __LINE__, "e")
#endif

/** exit stati: **/
#define INTERNAL_ERROR 1
#define BAD_USAGE 2
#define ASSERT_FAILED 3

/** external functions... **/
extern long random();
extern void srandom();
extern char *getenv();

/** Useful macros **/
#define Printf (void) printf
#define Fprintf (void) fprintf
#define NearestFarthing(dbl) ((double) ((int) ((dbl) * 4)) / 4.0) /*CHECKME*/

/** internal functions that are used before they are defined: **/
PROTO(void, PrintAcre, (char *Purpose, double Value, double Total));
PROTO(double, String2Float, (char *String, char *Description));
PROTO(void, DetermineLandAreas, ());
PROTO(void, MakeFreeMen, ());
PROTO(void, MakeSerfs, ());
PROTO(double, MakeRevenues, ());
PROTO(double, HouseHoldBudget, ());
PROTO(double, AddRevenue, ());
PROTO(double, OutGoings, ());

/** Harn stuff, global for error reporting only **/
static double WeatherOffset = 0.0;
static double Acres = -1.0; /* total acres */
static double TenantAcres = -1.0;
static double CropAcres = -1.0;
static double PastureAcres = -1.0;
static double WoodsAcres = -1.0;
static double WasteAcres = -1.0;
static int SerfCount = 130; /* serf population */
static int SerfLabour = 0, SerfKind = 0, SerfAcres = 0;
static int FreeMenCount = 1; /* free population */
static int FreeMenRent = 1;
static int FreeMenAcres = 0;

static double WeatherIndex = 0.0; /* to be calculated... */
static double FiefIndex = 1.0; /* default */
static double LandQuality = 1.00; /* default */

/** This is what we are trying to compute: **/
static double Income = 0.0;

/** generic program variables (not too many of these, please Liam!) **/
char *progname = "progname is set by main()";
char *cmdname = NULL;
int Verbose = 0;

/** **/


void
PrintCommandAndProgNames()
{
    if (cmdname) Fprintf(stderr, "%s: ", cmdname);
    Fprintf(stderr, "%s: ", progname);
}

#define UsagePrintf PrintCommandAndProgNames(); Fprintf

void
Usage()
{
    UsagePrintf(stderr, "estimate a Harn village's harvest yield\n");
    UsagePrintf(stderr, "options are [-Vvdxoautcpw]\n");
    if (!Verbose) {
	UsagePrintf(stderr, "\tUse -xv for details of options.\n");
	return;
    }
    UsagePrintf(stderr, "Options are:\n");
    UsagePrintf(stderr, " -V     -- print Version information\n");
    UsagePrintf(stderr, " -v     -- be verbose\n");
    UsagePrintf(stderr, " -d n   -- set debug level to n [now %d]\n", Verbose);
    {
	char *ThisOne = "print this explanation";
	char *ShorterOne = "print a shorter explanation";
	char *LongerOne = "print a Longer explanation";

	if (Verbose == 1) {
	    UsagePrintf(stderr, " -xv    -- %s\n", ShorterOne);
	    UsagePrintf(stderr, " -xvv   -- %s\n", LongerOne);
	} else if (Verbose == 2) {
	    UsagePrintf(stderr, " -xv    -- %s\n", ShorterOne);
	    UsagePrintf(stderr, " -xvv   -- %s\n", ThisOne);
	    UsagePrintf(stderr, " -xvvv  -- print a book about Harn\n");
	} else {
	    UsagePrintf(stderr, " -xv    -- %s\n", ShorterOne);
	    UsagePrintf(stderr, " -xvv   -- %s...\n", ThisOne);
	    UsagePrintf(stderr, " -xvvv  -- (I lied about the book, see)\n");
	}
    }
    UsagePrintf(stderr, " -o 3.4 -- give a bias to the Weather Index\n");
    if (Verbose > 1) {
	UsagePrintf(stderr, "           This is a percentage; higher values\n");
	UsagePrintf(stderr, "           give better weather.\n");
	if (Verbose > 2) {
	    UsagePrintf(stderr, "           Range should be -100 ... +100\n");
	    /* I never said the extra information would be useful! */
	}
    }
    UsagePrintf(stderr, " -a n   -- Allocate n Gross Acres of land\n");
    if (Verbose > 1) {
	UsagePrintf(stderr, "        n can be fractional, includes wasteland\n");
    }
    UsagePrintf(stderr, " -u n   -- Allocate n acres of unusable wasteland\n");
    UsagePrintf(stderr, " -t n   -- Allocate n acres to tenant farmers\n");
    UsagePrintf(stderr, " -c n   -- Allocate n acres for croplands\n");
    UsagePrintf(stderr, " -p n   -- Allocate n acres for pasture\n");
    UsagePrintf(stderr, " -w n   -- Allocate n acres for woodlands\n");
    UsagePrintf(stderr, " -q n   -- Land Quality is n [default %0.2f]\n",
							LandQuality);
    if (Verbose > 1) {
	UsagePrintf(stderr, "           LQ usually ranges from 0.85 to 1.15\n");
	UsagePrintf(stderr, "\n");
	UsagePrintf(stderr, "Give Gross Acres or all of the others.\n");
	if (Verbose > 2) {
	    UsagePrintf(stderr, "Waste Acres is 3d6% of Gross if omitted.\n");
	}
    }
    UsagePrintf(stderr, " -s n   -- There are n serfs in the village\n");
    if (Verbose > 1) {
	UsagePrintf(stderr, "           These are your farmers...\n");
    }
    UsagePrintf(stderr, " -f n   -- There are n free men in the village\n");
    if (Verbose > 1) {
	UsagePrintf(stderr, "           These are millers, salters,...\n");
    }
    return;
}

void
MyAssert(Expression, File, Line, What)
    int Expression;
    char *File;
    int Line;
    char *What;
{

#define NotNull(s, Empty, Null) ((s) ? (*(s) ? s : Empty) : Null)

    if (!Expression) {
	UsagePrintf(stderr, "%s: line %d: Assertion Failed: %s\n",
		NotNull(File, "empty filename??", "NULL filename??"),
		Line,
		NotNull(What, "empty expression??", "NULL expression??")
	);
	exit(ASSERT_FAILED);
    }
}

int
Random(Min, Max)
    int Min, Max;
{
    /* Unix random number generators tend to be alternately odd and even,
     * so we have to divide by a prime number to get a plausible result.
     * We then ignore the high-order bits so that the mod function is fair.
     * Finally, rand % (Max - Min) gives us 0 ... (Max - Min - 1), so
     * we need rand % (Max - Min + 1), and then add Min to the result.
     *
     * Note: if you use this function a lot, put it in a header file
     * surrounded by #ifdef USE_INLINE, and change the declaration to
     * inline int Random().  Then include the header file where you use
     * the function.
     */
    return (((random() / 211) & 0777777) % (Max - Min + 1)) + Min;
}

int
AddDice(HowMany, Sides)
    int HowMany;
    int Sides;
{
    register int i;

    int Total = 0;

    for (i = 0; i < HowMany; i++) {
	Total += Random(1, Sides);
    }

    return Total;
}

#define d(n) Random(1, n) /* for d(100), etc */

typedef struct {
    int MaxRoll;
    char *Description;
    double WeatherIndex;
} t_WeatherTable;

t_WeatherTable WeatherTable[] = {
    {	 20,	"cold wet",	0.50	},
    {	 40,	"cool wet",	0.75	},
    {	 60,	"average",	1.00	},
    {	 80,	"warm dry",	1.25	},
    {	100,	"hot dry",	1.50	},
    {	 -1,	"Program Error",0.00	}
};

double
MakeWeatherIndex(Offset)
    double Offset; /* Percent bias (e.g. negative for worse weather) */
{
    register int i;
    double TotalSoFar = 0.0;
    t_WeatherTable *wp;


    for (i = 0; i < 5; i++) {
	int Value = d(100) + Offset;

	if (Value > 100) Value = 100;
	if (Value < 0) Value = 0;

	for (wp = WeatherTable; Value > wp->MaxRoll; wp++) {
	    if (wp->MaxRoll < 0) {
		UsagePrintf(stderr,
		    "%s: %d: MakeWeatherIndex(%f): no entry in %s for %%roll %d\n",
		     __FILE__, __LINE__, Offset, "Weather Table", Value
		);
		exit(1);
	    }
	}
	
	TotalSoFar += wp->WeatherIndex;
	if (Verbose > 1) {
	    Printf("Weather in growing month %d: %s [%2.2f]\n",
						i, wp->Description, wp->WeatherIndex);
	}

    }

    if (Verbose) {
	Printf("Average Weather Index: %0.2f\n", TotalSoFar/5.00);
    }

    return TotalSoFar/5.00;
}

main(argc, argv)
    int argc;
    char *argv[];
{
    /** getopt stuff **/
    extern char *optarg;
    extern int optind;
    int NeedUsage = 0;
    int c;

    if ((progname = strrchr(argv[0], '/')) != (char *) NULL) {
	++progname; /* step over the trailing '/' to get to the filename */
    } else {
	progname = argv[0];
    }
    cmdname = getenv("CMDNAME"); /* possibly null, of course */

    srandom(getpid() * 37 + 4);

#if 0
    /* for testing the dice rolling... */
    for (c = 0; c < 30; c++) {
	printf("%d\t%d\t%d\n", d(100), AddDice(3, 6), AddDice(3,6));
    }
#endif

    /** Option processing **/
    while ((c = getopt(argc, argv, "Vvd:xhs:f:o:a:u:t:c:p:w:q:")) != -1) {
	switch (c) {
	case 'V': /* Version */
	    UsagePrintf(stderr, "$Revision: 1.15 $\n");
	    exit(0);
	case 'v': /* verbose */
	    Verbose++; /* can be repeated... */
	    break;
	case 'd': /* debug (actually sets Verbose) */
	    Verbose += atoi(optarg);
	    break;
	case 'x': /* explanation */
	case 'h': /* help */
	    if (NeedUsage == 0) NeedUsage = 1; /* unchanged if -1 */
	    break;
	case 'o': /* weather offset as a percent, e.g. +4.5 */
	    WeatherOffset = String2Float(optarg, "-o: Weather Offset");
	    break;
	case 'a': /* acres (total) */
	    Acres = String2Float(optarg, "-a: Demesne Acres");
	    break;
	case 'u': /* unusable (waste) acres */
	    TenantAcres = String2Float(optarg, "-u: Waste Acres");
	    break;
	case 't': /* tenant acres */
	    TenantAcres = String2Float(optarg, "-t: Tenant Acres");
	    break;
	case 'c': /* cropland acres */
	    TenantAcres = String2Float(optarg, "-c: Cropland Acres");
	    break;
	case 'p': /* pasture acres */
	    TenantAcres = String2Float(optarg, "-p: Pasture Acres");
	    break;
	case 'w': /* woods acres */
	    TenantAcres = String2Float(optarg, "-w: Wooded Acres");
	    break;
	case 'q': /* land quality */
	    LandQuality = String2Float(optarg, "-q: land quality");
	    break;
	case 'f':
	    FreeMenCount = (int) String2Float(optarg, "-f: number of freemen");

	    /* Paranoia: Check it was a whole number! */
	    if (FreeMenCount != (int) String2Float(optarg, "Free Men")) {
		UsagePrintf(stderr,
			"-f %s: You must have a whole number of freemen!\n",
					optarg);
		UsagePrintf(stderr,
			"use the -xvv option for more explanation.\n");
		exit(BAD_USAGE);
	    }
	    break;
	case 's':
	    SerfCount = (int) String2Float(optarg, "-s: number of serfs");

	    /* Paranoia: Check it was a whole number! */
	    if (SerfCount != (int) String2Float(optarg, "SerfCount")) {
		UsagePrintf(stderr,
			    "-s %s: You must have a whole number of serfs!\n",
			    optarg);
		UsagePrintf(stderr,
			    "use the -xvv option for more explanation.\n");
		exit(BAD_USAGE);
	    }
	    break;
	case '?':
	    NeedUsage = (-1); /* beware of old C "=-" operator */
	    break;
	}
    }
    if (NeedUsage) {
	Usage();
	exit (NeedUsage < 0 ? BAD_USAGE : 0);
    }

    if (optind < argc) {
	UsagePrintf(stderr, "%s: warning: %d argument%s ignored (%s%s)\n",
			progname,
			argc - optind,
			(argc - optind == 1) ? "" : "s",
			argv[optind],
			(argc - optind == 1) ? "" : " onwards..."
	);
    }

     /** Ensure that the various acre values make sense **/
    DetermineLandAreas();

    /* Let's have some villagers... */
    MakeFreeMen();
    MakeSerfs();

    /** Determine the various indices... **/
    WeatherIndex = MakeWeatherIndex(WeatherOffset);

    /** Now calculate the Revenues... **/
    Income += MakeRevenues();

    /** Print the Gross Revenues, to the nearest farthing: **/
    Printf("Total Revenues: %12.2fd\n", NearestFarthing(Income));


    /** now the outgoings **/

    Income += OutGoings();

    Printf("Total Profit: %12.2fd\n", NearestFarthing(Income));

    /* Assume you're a knight, so you pay a 5% tax (Bailifs pay 30%) */
    Income = AddRevenue(Income * .05, "Tax to liege-lord", Income);

    Printf("To Storage: %-12.2f\n", Income);

    Printf("\n\tWeather was %1.2f: ", WeatherIndex);
    if (WeatherIndex >= 1.5) {
	Printf("A frollickingly good ");
    } else if (WeatherIndex > 1.2) {
	Printf("A good ");
    } else if (WeatherIndex > 0.8) {
	Printf("A slightly %s-average ",
				WeatherIndex >= 1.00 ? "above" : "below");
    } else if (WeatherIndex > 0.8) {
	Printf("A poor ");
    } else {
	Printf("A diabolical ");
    }
    Printf("harvest\n");
    if (Income <= SerfCount * 12) {
	Printf("\tbut some of your poorer serfs died of starvation\n");
	if (Verbose) {
	    switch(d(3)) {
	    case 1:
		Printf("\tbecause of poor planning... maybe?\n");
		break;
	    case 2:
		Printf("\tAh well -- they're only serfs.  Who cares?\n");
		break;
	    case 3:
		Printf("\tThey'll breed again in time.  Probably.\n");
		break;
	    case 4:
		Printf("\tThe slave market in Orball is good this year.\n");
		break;
	    }
	}
    }

    exit(0);
}

double
HouseHoldBudget()
{
    double Total = 0.0;

    Total = AddRevenue(-3000.0, "Personal expenses", Total);
    Total = AddRevenue(-1800.0, "War Horse (necessary)", Total);
    Total = AddRevenue(-2000.0, "Family", Total);
	/* Note: actually spouse is 1500 and kids are 1000, but
	 * I am simplifying and calling it family.
	 */
    Total = AddRevenue(-2000.0, "Bailiff", Total);
    Total = AddRevenue(-900.0, "Clothier", Total);
    Total = AddRevenue(-1200.0, "2 Harpers", Total);
    Total = AddRevenue(-900.0, "1 Hideworker", Total);

    Total = AddRevenue(-Total * .15, "Savings from having a clothier", Total);

    return Total;
}

double
AddRevenue(Amount, What, Total)
    double Amount;
    char *What;
    double Total;
{
    int Negative = (Amount < 0.0);

    if (Negative) Amount = -Amount;

    Amount = NearestFarthing(Amount);
    if (Verbose) {
	if (Negative) {
	    Printf("%40.40s: (%10.2f) %10.2f\n", What, Amount, Total);
	} else {
	    Printf("%40.40s:  %10.2f  %10.2f\n", What, Amount, Total);
	}
    }
    return Negative ? Total - Amount : Total + Amount;
}

double
OutGoings()
{
    double Total = 0.0;

    /** [1] Household Budget **/
    Total += HouseHoldBudget();

    /** [2] Maintenance **/
    Total = AddRevenue(-Acres * FiefIndex, "Maintenance", Total);

    /** [3] Demesne Acres (irrelevant) **/

    /** [4] Cropland planted for next year **/
    /* (we assume it to be the same as for this year) */
    Total = AddRevenue(-CropAcres * (15 + 25), "Planting crops", Total);

    /** [6] Unused (irrelevant) (there is no 5, it seems) **/

    /** [7] Free Exports (do this later) **/

    /** [11] Woods Cleared (1% growth per year) **/
    Total = AddRevenue(-WoodsAcres*110*.01, "Keeping the forest back", Total);

    /** [10] Labour -- we assume that it all works out OK **/

    return Total;

}

typedef struct {
    int MaxRoll;
    char *Description;
    int Sides; /* for acres */
    int Dice; /* for acres */
    int Flags;
} t_FreeMenGeneratingTable;

/* the flags: */
#define F_NoRent 01
    /* A Yeoman pays no rent */
#define F_BusinessRights 2
    /* e.g. a miller pays for the right to use a millstone (who wouldn't?) */
#define F_Miller 4
    /* they pay more rent */
#define F_LowRent 8
    /* token rent only */

t_FreeMenGeneratingTable FreeMenGeneratingTable[] = {
    {	 19,	"Miserable Miller     ",  6, 10, F_BusinessRights|F_Miller},
    {	 29,	"Jolly Miller         ",  6, 10, F_BusinessRights|F_Miller},
    {	 44,	"Yeoman               ",  3, 40, F_NoRent		},
    {	 50,	"Priest               ",  6,  5, F_LowRent		},
    {	 54,	"Priest with living   ",  6,  5, F_NoRent		},
    {	 64,	"Salter               ",  10, 1, F_BusinessRights	},
    {	 65,	"Jmorvi Metalsmith    ",  11, 1, F_BusinessRights	},
    {	 79,	"Metalsmith           ",  10, 1, F_BusinessRights	},
    {	 89,	"Woodcrafter          ",  10, 1, F_BusinessRights	},
    {	 97,	"Timberwright         ",  10, 1, F_BusinessRights	},
    {	100,	"Charcoaler           ",  10, 1, F_BusinessRights	},
    {	 -1,	"Malicious program bug",  -1, -1,	0	}
};

void
MakeFreeMen()
{
    t_FreeMenGeneratingTable *Tablep;
    register int i;

    for (i = 0; i < FreeMenCount; i++) {
	int Roll;
	int RentRoll;
	int RightsRoll;
	int AcresRoll;
	int Labour;

	Roll = d(100);

	for (Tablep = FreeMenGeneratingTable; Tablep->MaxRoll<Roll; Tablep++) {
	    if (Tablep->MaxRoll > 100) {
		UsagePrintf(stderr, "Internal Error: %s: %d: %d > 100\n",
				__FILE__, __LINE__ - 1, Tablep->MaxRoll);
		exit(INTERNAL_ERROR);
	    }
	}

	AcresRoll = AddDice(Tablep->Dice, Tablep->Sides);
	FreeMenAcres += AcresRoll;

	if (!(Tablep->Flags & F_NoRent)) {
	    if (Tablep->Flags & F_LowRent) {
		RentRoll = AcresRoll * LandQuality;
	    } else {
		int PerAcre = AddDice(2, 6);

		RentRoll =  PerAcre * AcresRoll * LandQuality;

		switch (PerAcre) {
		case 2:
		    Labour = 2 * AcresRoll;
		    break;
		case 3:
		    Labour = 1 * AcresRoll;
		    break;
		default:
		    Labour = 0;
		    break;
		}
	    }
	    FreeMenRent += RentRoll + Labour;
	} else {
	    RentRoll = 0;
	}

	if (Tablep->Flags & F_BusinessRights) {
	    if (Tablep->Flags & F_Miller) {
		RightsRoll = 240;
	    } else {
		RightsRoll = AddDice(10, 6);
	    }
	    FreeMenRent += RightsRoll;
	} else {
	    RightsRoll = 0;
	}

	if (Verbose > 3) {
	    Printf("%5d\t%s Pays %d rent (%d acre%s), %d rights, %d labour\n",
			i + 1, Tablep->Description, RentRoll, AcresRoll,
			AcresRoll == 1 ? "" : "s", RightsRoll, Labour
	    );
	}
    }
}

typedef struct {
    int MaxRoll;
    char *Description;
    int Acres;
    int Labour;
    int Kind;
} t_SerfGeneratingTable;

t_SerfGeneratingTable SerfGeneratingTable[] = {
    {	 1,	"Naked Slave          ",  0,	300,	 0	}, /* ouch! */
    {	12,	"Naked Cottar         ",  1,	 60,	 4	},
    {	19,	"Barefoot Cottar      ",  3,	 70,	 5	},
    {	29,	"Unhappy Cottar       ",  5,	 80,	 6	},
    {	36,	"Barefoot Half-Villein", 10,	100,	 7	},
    {	52,	"Half-Villein         ", 15,	120,	 8	},
    {	60,	"Aspiring Half-Villein", 20,	140,	 9	},
    {	70,	"Barefoot Villein     ", 25,	160,	10	},
    {	90,	"Contented Villein    ", 30,	180,	11	},
    {  100,	"hard-Working Villein ", 35,	200,	12	},
    {  999,	"Wanton program bug!  ", -1,	 -1,	99	},
};

void
MakeSerfs()
{
    t_SerfGeneratingTable *Tablep;
    register int i;
    int Roll, Roll2;

    for (i = 0; i < SerfCount; i++) {
	Roll = d(100);

	for (Tablep = SerfGeneratingTable; Tablep->MaxRoll < Roll; Tablep++) {
	    if (Tablep->MaxRoll > 100) {
		UsagePrintf(stderr, "Internal Error: %s: %d: %d > 100\n",
				__FILE__, __LINE__ - 1, Tablep->MaxRoll);
		exit(INTERNAL_ERROR);
	    }
	}

	SerfAcres += Tablep->Acres;
	Roll = d(15) - 8; /* -7 ... +7 inclusive */
	SerfLabour += Tablep->Labour + Roll;
	Roll2 = d(5) - 3; /* -2 ... +2 inclusive */
	SerfKind += Tablep->Kind + Roll2;

	if (Verbose > 3) {
	    Printf(
		"%5d\t%s farms %d acres, owes %2d days labour, %2d in kind\n",
		i + 1, Tablep->Description,
		Tablep->Acres, Tablep->Labour + Roll, Tablep->Kind + Roll2
	    );
	}
    }
    /* We'll modify the incomes by the FI and WI, though */
    SerfLabour *= FiefIndex * FiefIndex * WeatherIndex * .8;
    SerfKind *= FiefIndex * WeatherIndex * WeatherIndex;
    SerfKind *= (100 - AddDice(3, 10)) / 100.0;
    /* the final .8 or so reduction reflects the serfs making petitions
     * based on poor weather, deaths, children, or whatever.  
     */
}


double
MakeRevenues()
{
    double Total = 0.0;
    double Revenue;
    int n;

    /** [1] tenant acres **/
    Revenue = FreeMenRent;

    if (Verbose > 2) {
	Printf("\t%dd in rent and associated payments from %d freemen\n",
		FreeMenRent, FreeMenCount);
    }
    Total = AddRevenue(Revenue, "Income from freemen", Total);

    Revenue = SerfLabour + SerfKind;
    if (Verbose > 2) {
	Printf("\t%d days labour + %d in kind from %d busily farming serfs\n",
		SerfLabour, SerfKind, SerfCount);
    }
    Total = AddRevenue(Revenue, "Income from tenant farmers", Total);

    /** [2] crops **/
    Revenue = CropAcres * 60 * LandQuality * FiefIndex * WeatherIndex;
    if (Verbose > 2) {
	Printf("\t%4.2f x 60d x LQ [%0.2f] x FI [%0.2f] * WI [%0.2f]\n",
		CropAcres, LandQuality, FiefIndex, WeatherIndex);
    }
    Total = AddRevenue(Revenue, "Income from crops", Total);

    /** [3] Pasture **/
    Revenue = PastureAcres * 25 * LandQuality * FiefIndex;
    if (Verbose > 2) {
	Printf("\t%4.2f x 25d x LQ [%0.2f] x FI [%0.2f]\n",
		PastureAcres, LandQuality, FiefIndex);
    }
    Total = AddRevenue(Revenue, "Income from pasture", Total);
    Total = AddRevenue(Revenue * .1, "Hideworker improves pasture by", Total);

    /** [4] Woods **/
    Revenue = WoodsAcres * (n = AddDice(2, 4));
    if (Verbose > 2) {
	Printf("%4.2f x %dd\n",
		WoodsAcres, n);
    }
    Total = AddRevenue(Revenue, "Income from woods", Total);

    /** [5] Free Imports (assume none) **/

    if (Verbose > 1) {
	Printf("\tFree Imports from vassal demesnes could be:\n");
	Printf("\t\ttheir gross acres x 3.0 x LandQuality (held by you)\n");
	Printf("\t\ttheir gross acres x 0.5 x LandQuality (held by knight)\n");
	if (Verbose > 2) {
	    Printf("\tBut you will have to add that yourself...\n");
	}
    }

    /** [6] Gross Revenue **/

    /** [7] From Storage **/

    /* since we have no history, we invent a number.  The number suggested
     * is gross acres, but we modify it a little so it's less obvious.
     * We'll approximate a bell curve by rolling 100 50-sided dice...
     * It's done in 2 parts to avoid losing precision: since we can't
     * force evaluation order with parentheses, the compiler could do
     * Acres * AddDice() first and then the division, and we could lose
     * some farthings...
     */

    Revenue = AddDice(100, 50) / 5000;
    Revenue *= Acres;
    Total = AddRevenue(Revenue, "Goods from storage", Total);

    return Total;
}

void
DetermineLandAreas()
{

    /* Make sure the land amounts are set */
    if (Acres <= 0.0) {
	if (TenantAcres < 0.0 || CropAcres <= 0.0 ||
				PastureAcres <= 0.0 || WoodsAcres <= 0.0) {
	    UsagePrintf(stderr,
		"give either -a or -t, -c, -p & -w; use -xv for details\n");
	    exit(BAD_USAGE);
	}
	Acres = TenantAcres + CropAcres + PastureAcres + WoodsAcres;
	if (WasteAcres < 0.0) {
	    double R;

	    /*    Waste = 3d6% x GrossAcres
	     * hence
	     *    Waste = 3d6% x (NetAcres + Waste)
	     * Let R be 3d6%.  Then
	     *    Waste x (1 - R) = R x NetAcres
	     * and
	     *    Waste = R x NetAcres / (1 - R)
	     */

	    R = AddDice(3, 6) / 100.0;
	    WasteAcres = R * Acres / (1 - R);
	    Acres += WasteAcres;
	}
    } else {
	double Remainder = Acres;

	/* In this case we were given gross acres... */

	if (WasteAcres < 0) {
	    WasteAcres = Acres * AddDice(3, 6) / 100.0;
	}

	Remainder -= WasteAcres; /* subtracted up to 18% */
	Assert(Remainder > 0.0);

	if (WoodsAcres < 0) {
	    WoodsAcres = (AddDice(3, 6) + 10.0) * Acres / 100.0;
	}

	Remainder -= WoodsAcres; /* subtracted up to 18 + 28 = 46% */
	Assert(Remainder > 0.0);

	if (TenantAcres < 0) {
	    TenantAcres = 0.3 * Acres;
	    if (TenantAcres > Remainder) {
		TenantAcres = AddDice(7, 10) * Remainder / 100.0;
		/* 7...70% of the remainder */
	    }
	}
	Remainder -= TenantAcres;
	Assert(Remainder > 0.0);

	if (CropAcres < 0) {
	    CropAcres = 0.5 * Remainder;
	}
	Remainder -= CropAcres;

	Assert(Remainder >= 0.0);

	PastureAcres = Remainder;

	/* The rest is for pasture */

    }

    if (Verbose) {
	Printf("Total Acres: %g, of which %g are unusable;\n",
					Acres, WasteAcres);
	PrintAcre("crops", CropAcres, Acres);
	PrintAcre("tenant farming", TenantAcres, Acres);
	PrintAcre("pasture", PastureAcres, Acres);
	PrintAcre("woods", WoodsAcres, Acres);
	PrintAcre("waste", WasteAcres, Acres);
    }

    /** The land areas are now all determined. **/
}

void
PrintAcre(Purpose, Value, Total)
    char *Purpose;
    double Value;
    double Total;
{
    Printf("\t%4.3f acres of %s land [%0.2f%%]\n",
			Value, Purpose, Value * 100.0 / Total);
}


/** general useful functions **/

double
String2Float(String, Description)
    char *String;
    char *Description;
{
    /* We use strtod here.
     * If you don't have strtod, use atof() by compiling with -DUSE_ATOF
     */
#ifdef USEATOF
    PROTO(double, atof, (char *String));
#else
    PROTO(double, strtod, (char *String, char **EndPointer));
    double Result;
    char *EndOfNumber;
#endif

    if (!Description || !*Description) {
	if (!String || !*String) String = "NULL";

	UsagePrintf(stderr, "Internal Error: String2Float(%s, NULL)\n",
								String);
	exit(INTERNAL_ERROR);
    }
    if (!String || !*String) {
	if (!Description || !*Description) Description = "NULL";

	UsagePrintf(stderr, "Internal Error: String2Float(NULL, %s)\n",
								Description);
	exit(INTERNAL_ERROR);
    }
#ifdef USE_ATOF
    return atof(String);
#else
    Result = strtod(String, &EndOfNumber);
    if (!EndOfNumber) {
	UsagePrintf(stderr,
		"Internal Error: String2Float(%s, %s): strtod() failure\n",
		String, Description
	);
	exit(INTERNAL_ERROR);
    }
    if (EndOfNumber == String) {
	UsagePrintf(stderr, "%s: >>%s<< not understood as a number, sorry\n",
					    Description, String);
	UsagePrintf(stderr, "use the -x option for a usage message\n");
	exit(INTERNAL_ERROR);

    } else if (*EndOfNumber != '\0') {
	UsagePrintf(stderr,
		"%s: >>%s<< has unexpected trailing characters [%s]\n",
		Description, String, EndOfNumber
	);
	UsagePrintf(stderr, "use the -x option for a usage message\n");
	exit(INTERNAL_ERROR);
    }
    return Result;
#endif
}
/** **/
/* $Log:	Harvest.c,v $
 * Revision 1.15  91/03/17  10:32:38  lee
 * delinted.
 * 
 * Revision 1.14  91/03/17  10:24:27  lee
 * Seems to be OK, but a bit too random maybe?
 * 
 * Revision 1.13  91/03/17  09:51:47  lee
 * Well, it's all there, but it seems to random to me.
 * 
 * Revision 1.12  91/03/17  07:46:36  lee
 * it works.
 * 
 * Revision 1.11  91/03/17  07:40:39  lee
 * produce a sarcastic comment at the end.
 * 
 * Revision 1.10  91/03/17  07:18:16  lee
 * Now calls MakeSerf()... and started outgoingss, too.
 * 
 * Revision 1.9  91/03/17  06:45:21  lee
 * does household too now.
 * 
 * Revision 1.8  91/03/17  04:41:45  lee
 * Now at least attempts revenues...
 * 
 * Revision 1.7  91/03/17  03:50:15  lee
 * Compiles again, and does areas and weather...
 * 
 * Revision 1.6  91/03/17  03:37:22  lee
 * intermediate version.
 * 
 * Revision 1.5  91/03/17  03:00:02  lee
 * First plausible version.
 * 
 * Revision 1.4  91/03/17  02:49:54  lee
 * -xv and -xv are now eqivalent and work...
 * 
 * Revision 1.3  91/03/17  02:43:01  lee
 * More thorough in use of UsagePrint.
 * added a missing break; to the getopt switch().
 * 
 * Revision 1.2  91/03/17  02:36:23  lee
 * Added Usage() and made it more complicated...
 * 
 */
--- cut here (snip) -- cut here -- snip -- cut here (sniff) -- cut here -- cu
Liam R. E. Quin,  lee@sq.com, SoftQuad Inc., Toronto, +1 (416) 963-8337
    `A wrong that cannot be repaired must be transcended'
						Ursula K. Le Guin, in _Tehanu_

-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: SCHMUNK@SPACVAX.RICE.EDU (Robert B. Schmunk, 1-713-527-4939)
Subject: Necromancy spells

I've been working on a series of necromancy spells lately, and here
are the first two. "Aestasi's Dart" is derived from the Jmorvi spell
"Steeldart", which appeared on HarnLine and in HarnLore 5. "Benhart's
Animus" is original, but it seemed about the same complexity as "Animus
of Nithri" and so I assigned it the same complexity level. In designing
"Benhart's Animus", I worked from the assumption that the weapon
skills of the skeleton derive from those of the person who created it,
not the person from whose long-dead body the skeleton has come. Since
most mages will have little or no weapons training, an animated skeleton
would probably be easy to destroy once a character has overcome the
fright and terror of encountering one. (I suppose I ought to work up
a Skeleton entry for the Bestiary. Give me a week.)

BTW, is anyone out there using the Melchusian convocations instead of
the original Shek Pvar? There a couple questions I'd like to pose.

rbs
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) AESTASI'S DART
[Shek Pvar: Fyvria/II]
[Melchusian Magic: Necromancy/II]
(source: derived from STEELDART)

This spell causes any previously enchanted object made entirely of 
bone to act as a thrown taburi. The missile may weigh no more than 
one pound. With the basic spell, the mage must hold the missile 
during casting of the spell and physically throw it towards the 
victim as the spell is completed. Two rolls are made against 
casting EML: the first to determine success, the second to target 
the missile. The missile will perform as a taburi (Range and 
Impact modifiers), and may strike the target even if the spell 
fails. The caster must commit to casting the spell before 
determining the accuracy of the throw. The impact of the missile 
is increased by half SI (MS) or SI (CS).

BONUS EFFECTS

ML41+ Caster need not physically throw the missile or touch it 
during casting. Range is ML feet.

ML91+ The spell may be cast upon any unenchanted bone object of 
weight no greater than one pound.

FATIGUE:  (15-SI)*2.0
TIME:     15-SI seconds
RANGE:    Basic, touch
          ML41+, ML feet
DURATION: n/a
-------------------------------------------------------------------
(2) BENHART'S ANIMUS
[Shek Pvar: Fyvria/V]
[Melchusian Magic: Necromancy/V]

Restores a small portion of animus to a single skeleton, which can 
to a limited degree be controlled by the caster. The basic spell 
only permits the restructuring of a skeleton provided that the 
mage has touched one of its component bones during casting (and 
that the bones are not scattered or buried deeply). Assembly 
occurs during casting, and the skeleton will remain intact for 
Duration. In order to control and manipulate the skeleton, the 
mage must must keep his attention upon it continuously. If he is 
distracted, the animus will depart and the skeleton disassemble. 
The skeleton must also remain within line of sight or it will 
disassemble.

As the caster's proficiency with Benhart's Animus increases, he 
will be able to cause the skeleton to stand up, walk, and perhaps 
fight. However, since the original spirit has long departed from 
the body from which the skeleton was once a part, all activities 
of the skeleton will be based on those of mage who has animated 
it. Consequently, a skeleton animated by Benhart's Animus may find 
it difficult to use a weapon and would resort to unarmed combat

Control of the skeleton is maintained through a "control-bone", 
typically the skull, though it may be any bone touched during 
casting. This bone may be identified by a small (two-inch 
diameter) black glowing sphere which will be attached to it. Any 
bone to which a direct link cannot be traced from the control-bone 
will not join in when the skeleton assembles. For instance, if the 
humerus (upper arm) were missing, the radius and ulna (lower arm), 
wrist and hand bones would all remain unconnected. Similarly, if 
any component bone of the skeleton were smashed during Duration, 
all bones which trace linkage to the control-bone through the 
destroyed bone would all immediately fall from the skeleton. 
(Obviously, the easiest to destroy an animated skeleton is to 
smash the control-bone.) Effects may also be reduced (GM 
discretion) if the skeleton is in poor condition.

BONUS EFFECTS

ML41+ The skeleton can be ordered to stand up and move (provided 
leg bones are present and intact). Control is verbal, literal and 
very difficult; all skeletal actions are at 10% of the caster's 
appropriate skill ML.

ML51+ Caster no longer need touch the skeleton in order to command 
it. The skull of a skeleton animated without touch will serve as 
the control-bone.

ML61+ Control is improved; all skeletal actions are at 25% of 
caster's skill ML.

ML81+ Control is by instinct (or pseudo-telepathy) and much 
improved; all skeletal actions are at 50% of caster's skill ML.

ML91+ Control is as fine as possible; all skeletal actions are at 
caster's full skill ML. If caster is distracted, skeleton will not 
immediately disassemble but will pause in its actions until he 
returns his attentions to directing it, provided that Duration has 
not expired.

FATIGUE:  (15-SI)*3.5
TIME:     (15-SI)*30 seconds
RANGE:    Basic, touch
          ML51+, SI yards
DURATION: MS, SI minutes
          CS, ML minutes


Subject: re: Harvest Time
From: Paul Stratton (Sierra Geophysics, Inc.) <sgihbtn!paul@uunet.UU.NET>

>roll against average of agriculture skill of each family head
>
><cs> crop up by 10%
><ms> crop up by 5%
><mf> no change
><cf> crop down by 5%
>
>and use this as a further modifier on the above multiplier.
>
>giving a total effect of...
>
> ( 10(d10) - 55 + spec. weather mod + agriculture mod ) x average yield
>
>comments?

Read the prices section of Encyclopedia Harnica that comes with the World of
Harn module.  It mentions that the average grain yield is 10 bushels per acre
and can vary from a low of 4 to a high of 14 or 15.  I think it also gives a frequency of how often the extreme harvests happen.

Don't you mean

(1 + (( 10d10-55 + weather + agri. mod.)/55 ))  x   average yield.

This will give you a number around 1.xx times the average yield.

There may be more information in the article on manors.  I don't have it handy at the moment.

Paul

-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jerry.West@UK.Sun.COM (Jeremy West - UK Technical Training Manager)
Subject: Re: weather

I have an untested, unevaluated, weather generator (which isn't even Harn
specific!).  If you're still interested, here's the README and sample output.

If you want a copy, drop me mail.

Rgds,
  Jerry

  -> When playing roleplaying games (RPGs), it often adds some realism
  -> if the GM can determine what kind of weather is occuring.  This
  -> program generates random weather for a year that is tunable to
  -> various climates.  Several example climates are included: north,
  -> south, and mid atlantic, gulf, and north pacific.
  -> 
  -> In addition, several different calendars are included: Gregorian,
  -> medieval Japanese, and the Middle Earth calendar detailed in the
  -> appendices of Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings.
  -> 
  -> The details of these are provided so that the user can create his
  -> or her own climate profiles or calendars.
  -> 
  -> Please send any improvements, new climate profiles, new calendars,
  -> or better versions of the current climate profiles to one of the
  -> addresses below.
  -> 
  -> -----------------------------------------------------------------
  -> Brett Slocum   UUCP: ...uunet!hi-csc!slocum
  ->                Arpa: hi-csc!slocum@uunet.uu.net
  -> "My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
  -> -----------------------------------------------------------------

Year 1066   Weather        Sky   Temperature    Precip      Wind  Depth  Notes
January  
   1       Overcast       Mist    Fair ( 40)      None      Calm  43.7"  New Years (s)
   2       Overcast       Mist  Chilly ( 25)      None      Calm  43.7" 
   3       Overcast     Cloudy    Cold ( 10)      None      Calm  43.7" 
   4       Overcast  Light Fog    Cold ( 20)      None      Calm  43.7" 
   5       Overcast     Cloudy    Cold ( 20)      None      Calm  43.7" 
   6  Precipitation  Heavy Fog    Cold ( 20)    Steady  Blustery  65.7"  Blizzard - 24 hours, Twelfth Night
   7          Clear      Clear  Chilly ( 35)      None      Calm  64.7" 

...

[December]

  13       Overcast     Cloudy  Chilly ( 25)      None     Light   0.1" 
  14       Overcast       Mist    Cold ( 20)      None      Calm   0.1" 
  15          Clear      Clear  Chilly ( 25)      None     Light   0.1" 
  16          Clear      Clear  Chilly ( 25)      None      Calm   0.1" 
  17          Clear      Clear  Chilly ( 25)      None      Calm   0.1" 
  18          Clear      Clear  Chilly ( 30)      None      Calm   0.1" 
  19          Clear      Clear    Cold ( 15)      None      Calm   0.1" 
  20          Clear      Clear  Chilly ( 25)      None      Calm   0.1" 
  21       Overcast     Cloudy    Cold ( 20)      None      Calm   0.1"  Winter Solstice
  22       Overcast     Cloudy    Cold ( 10)      None      Calm   0.1" 
  23       Overcast       Mist  Chilly ( 25)      None      Calm   0.1" 
  24  Precipitation  Heavy Fog    Cold ( 20)    Steady      Calm   4.1"  Snow - 24 hours,
  25  Precipitation       Mist    Cold ( 20)    Steady      Calm  10.1"  Snow - 24 hours, Christmas
  26  Precipitation       Mist  Chilly ( 30)    Steady      Calm  18.1"  Snow - 24 hours,
  27  Precipitation  Light Fog  Chilly ( 25)    Steady      Calm  23.1"  Snow - 24 hours,
  28  Precipitation  Light Fog  Chilly ( 25)    Steady      Calm  27.1"  Snow - 24 hours,
  29  Precipitation       Mist  Chilly ( 25)  Sprinkle      Gale  27.2"  Snow - 25 minutes,
  30       Overcast  Heavy Fog    Cold ( 15)      None     Brisk  27.2" 
  31  Precipitation       Mist    Cold ( 20)    Shower      Gale  27.2"  Snow - 80 minutes,
High Temp =  30, Low Temp =   5, Average Temp =  21

Sunshine = 237 days
Rainfall = 23.2"
Snowfall = 120.7"

-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Chris Davis <@VM.CC.PURDUE.EDU:AERE6909@RYERSON>
Subject:      Pvar and an Ocean-going mistake  [Subject by Ed.]

     I have come across a situation that has since been resolved, but
could have been handled better.  Here it is, hopefully someone can come
up with some creative ideas on how it should be dealt with.
     A certain member of the Shek Pvar took it upon himself, when
threatened by pirates, to cast a spell that would create a wave to swamp
the oncomming ship.  Not being a very bright person he decided to create
the spell on the spur of the moment and proceeded to get a CF on his die
roll.  The effect was a much larger wave then he suspected and he ended
up solving the problem of the pirates and the problem of his making the
same stupid mistake (he could not swim, not that it would have helped).
The wave was also of such a size that it would have caused damage to the
nearby shore, islands and any inhabitants thereof.
     What I would like is some adivce as to the type of rules that would
fit this type of situation.  Something that gives a gradual size loss of
a wave over time, the immidiate effects of the sudden movement of enough
water to create a three to four hundred foot wave and the havoc that it
could create to a small island and the shoreline that it might reach.

                                              Thanks,
                                              Chris Davis
                                              AERE6909@RYERSON.CA

-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ccmsean@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu (Flarius Woodshelm)
Subject: Wave stuff

>From: Chris Davis <@VM.CC.PURDUE.EDU:AERE6909@RYERSON>
>Subject:      Pvar and an Ocean-going mistake  [Subject by Ed.]
>
>     I have come across a situation that has since been resolved, but
>could have been handled better.  Here it is, hopefully someone can come
>up with some creative ideas on how it should be dealt with.
>     A certain member of the Shek Pvar took it upon himself, when
>threatened by pirates, to cast a spell that would create a wave to swamp
>the oncomming ship.  Not being a very bright person he decided to create
>the spell on the spur of the moment and proceeded to get a CF on his die
>roll.  The effect was a much larger wave then he suspected and he ended
>up solving the problem of the pirates and the problem of his making the
>same stupid mistake (he could not swim, not that it would have helped).
>The wave was also of such a size that it would have caused damage to the
>nearby shore, islands and any inhabitants thereof.
>     What I would like is some adivce as to the type of rules that would
>fit this type of situation.  Something that gives a gradual size loss of
>a wave over time, the immidiate effects of the sudden movement of enough
>water to create a three to four hundred foot wave and the havoc that it
>could create to a small island and the shoreline that it might reach.
>
>                                              Thanks,
>                                              Chris Davis
>                                              AERE6909@RYERSON.CA
>
For information on CF on spells, the Shek-Pvar suppliment (that nice, black
covered book the size of a normal book) has a lovely table to generate the
results.  Whether there would be additional results since this is the 
first casting of a created spell, you would have to check.

Sean
ccmsean@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu


-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: SCHMUNK@SPACVAX.RICE.EDU (Robert B. Schmunk, 1-713-527-4939)
Subject: Waves

Immediate effect of enough water to create a three hundred foot wave?
A lot of sloshing! :-)

Well, before I could launch into a long rambling discussion about
the wave Chris Davis describes, a little more info would he helpful.
1) Is the wave 300 feet *high* or *wide*? Whatever the case, what's
   the other dimension?
2) Does the wave have a straightline front, or is it propagating out
   in a circle?

Assuming the wave is 300 feet high and straight:
   Ahything in front of the wave is (waterlogged) toast. Dissipation
   of the wave will not be very rapid unless it is not very thick
   (front to back), in which case I imagine it would start breaking
   almost right away, but would probably still take many miles
   (how many I can't estimate) before the wave could be called
   non-dangerous. If this wave is thick (front to back), there
   isn't much to dissipate until it hits shallow water and/or land.
   In that case, watch out.

Assuming it's 300 feet thick:
   Well, I really do need to know tall it is.

Assuming it's propagating in a circle:
   At a rough guess, height will decrease inversely proportional
   to ditance traveled. Ie., double the distance, halve the height.

A few notes about tsunamis are in order.
1) Tsunamis are often barely noticeable to a ship well out to sea.
   Out there, they are short but very thick, and a ship may only
   experience a long swell. It's when they hit shallow water that
   there's trouble.
2) A lot of the energy in a wave is underwater; I mean under whatever
   sea level is. When the wave reaches a shallow area, a lot of this
   action is encountering friction. The front of the wave slows down
   and the rear of the wave piles up on top of it. Since there's so
   much water coming up behind in a tsunami wave, what might have
   been a 5-foot swell out a sea suddenly piles up into a 60-foot
   wave, and all the fishing villages are gone.

Well, it's been a long time since I took a class that touched on fluid
mechanics, so much of this has been random rambling. Hope it was of
some help,

rbs



-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: SCHMUNK@SPACVAX.RICE.EDU (Robert B. Schmunk, 1-713-527-4939)
Subject: Waves

1) Is the wave 300 feet *high* or *wide*? Whatever the case, what's
   the other dimension?

     I left out some of the fine detail, thinking that there would be a
scientific method of solving them.  For egsample, if the wave had to
correspond to a sine curve, it would automatically have a given width.
The wave was three hundred feet high.

2) Does the wave have a straightline front, or is it propagating out
   in a circle?

     The wave was the culmination of the surrounding waters moving up
to form it. I'll give it an arbitrary length of 500 feet and it is
moving away from its source.

     Hopefully I am not wandering to far from the original 'Harn'
theme with this topic.  I do appreciate the help.
                                                 Chris Davis
                                                 Aere6909@ryerson.ca

-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: advent@ukc.ac.uk
Subject:  Jousting


Firstly, thanks for those of you who replied to my request for
imformation on harvests and weather, particularily Liam Quin for the
program. To the person who suggested I look at the manor article in
harndex, I did, that is why, like their example, I had about a 50%
variation possible.

On to the main subject - Jousting. I've just run my players through the
"Grand Chelabin Chivalric Tourny" (or your own variation upon the
correct name) in Olokand. Apart from the mass market, dancing,
musicians, and various mayhem that such would entail, some of them
wanted to join in some of the contests... Here's how I decided to handle
it. In most categories I had three competitions, novice - open to those
who have not competed before, open - for anybody, and invitation - for
the outstanding ones. For some events the right to bear arms personally
was required, such as the joust. Some, such as the weapon combat, was
available for those who held weapons in various lords names (ie
Soldiers, Yeomen etc), and others, such as wrestling available to all.

Comments?

Steve
=========================================================================
JOUSTING
========

Jousting - somewhat different from standard mounted combat with lances.
Here the participants are expected to aim for the oponents shield, and
blunt wooden lances are used rather than the iron tipped combat version.
Process is...

1. Both participants make riding roll. Failing this means you may only
defend this turn. <cf> applies a special penalty of 2d6 for the rest of
this round due to lack of control.

2. Those eligable make lance attack rolls. A failure indicates no
attack. A <cf> requires a further horsemanship roll as you are in danger
of lancing the ground.

3. Resolve strikes. Higher success level goes first, otherwise
simultaneous.

a. Defender makes shield block roll, look up effect on table

                    shield block
               cf    mf    ms    cs
attacker ms    3     2     1     0
         cs    4     3     2     1

b. Defender calculates special penalty for the rest of this round. This
is nd6, 'n' taken from the table above. This will not affect
simultaneous strikes, but may make a later strike fail rather than
succeed.

c. Defender makes riding roll to remain in saddle

4. Accumulate fatigue. This occurs as normal, each pass at the joust
being one round. There is a special fatigue loss of 'n', as given in
the table above, if you have been hit, simulating minor bruises, aches
etc.

return to 1

The joust is won by either unseating your opponent, or achieving 3 more
strikes than your opponent.

Archery
=======

Archery Competition: two types: shortbows at 60yards and lomngbows at
100yds.

Each competitor rolls for 12 arrows, and scores as follows:
	<cs> - 5pts - centre
	<ms> - 3pts - average
	<mf> - 1pt - edge
	<cf> - 0pt - miss

The highest score is the winner, draws are decided by most centres, then
average, and then edge shots. If things are still level, then a further
six arrows are shot.

Weapon
======

I used standard combat rules, though competitors were expected NOT to
aim for the head, to allow fallen opponents to regain their feet,
weapons etc, and to pull their blows if they looked like being fatal.
They are also expected NOT to use counterstrike options.

pulled blows: If upon resolving the strike, ie <cs> attack vs <cf>
shield block, the attacker seems likely to cause a major injury, then
he may, before rolling the weapon impact,
choose to reduce the damage. A second attack roll in generated, without
weapon modifiers. <ms> allows the reduction of one category, <cs> the
choice of either one or two categories. Failure has no effect. The
impact is then rolled, armour subtracted, and the non-pulled injury
found on the chart, and it reduced by the relevant number of columns. ie
Edged_9+ reduced to Edged_5+. It is possible if the wound is already at
the smallest Blunt category that no wound occurs, and the attacker has
thus missed due to his actions!

Wrestling
=========

Taken directly from the unarmed combat rules. The winner was decided by
the best of five throws. The only change was to translate the rolled
injuries into fatigue points. Exploitation of hold in other ways than a
throw was severly frowned upon by those running the event, as were
attacks other than grapple!



-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jaakko Kankaanp{{ <JAC@kontu.utu.fi>
Subject:  Re: Jousting


>On to the main subject - Jousting. I've just run my players through the
>"Grand Chelabin Chivalric Tourny" (or your own variation upon the
>correct name) in Olokand. Apart from the mass market, dancing,
>musicians, and various mayhem that such would entail, some of them
>wanted to join in some of the contests... Here's how I decided to handle
>it. In most categories I had three competitions, novice - open to those
>who have not competed before, open - for anybody, and invitation - for
>the outstanding ones. For some events the right to bear arms personally
>was required, such as the joust.

What exactly do you mean by this? I shoud think the joust would be open to
anyboby who is of noble blood, and only to them. The other competitions would
be for commoners only.

>Jousting - somewhat different from standard mounted combat with lances.
>Here the participants are expected to aim for the oponents shield, and
>blunt wooden lances are used rather than the iron tipped combat version.

If you wanted to be historically accurate, tournament lances would be tipped
with a crown-shaped iron head with three more or less blunt projections. I think
such a lance is actually pictured on the cover of the Kaldor molule.

>Process is...

The rules you had made up for tourneying looked very nice and useful indeed.
Apart from the little details above, I have no comments and certainly nothing
to add. I am planning to run the tournament myself, so if you have any
adventure/scenario/encounter ideas you have developed, I would be very
interested to see them.

Jaakko
_____
Jaakko Kankaanpaa     !     Turku, Finland     !     jac@kontu.utu.fi
"I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition"

-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: advent@ukc.ac.uk
Subject: Jousting, the sequel


thanks to Jaako Kankaanpaa for the comments...

I suspect that I didn't make clear what I saw as the entrance requirements

Joust - participants must have the right to bear a coat of arms,
effectively limiting the contest to the nobility, though I'd also allow
the knights of Larani's fighting orders to compete under the arms of
that fighting order. (effectively since knights and above of this order
should be nobility, this will not cause problems)

Other weapon combat - chivalric weapons - as above, though I'd also
include those who carry weapons of this category through sponsorship of
nobility, ie the military units etc. 

Other weapon combat - open to any free, and the unfree with permission
from their lords

Other - wrestling, staff fighting, hollering (see the 100 bushels
module!), etc - open to anyone.

The nobility would be eligible to enter anything, though participating
in more than the top two would be very unusual!

Jousting Lances...

> If you wanted to be historically accurate, tournament lances would be tipped
> with a crown-shaped iron head with three more or less blunt projections. I think
> such a lance is actually pictured on the cover of the Kaldor molule.

Fine, I was going by what is currently used. Having seen several modern
jousts here, I mmade up the previous rules. Modern competitions are
usually team events, though the participants also score individually,
and points are awarded for striking the opponents shield. I haven't seen
anyone fall at a competition as a result of a joust. I would imagine
that historically things were a lot more aggresive, hence the higher
chance of falling. The next tourny I run will have the new improved
jousting lances, with crown shaped iron head!

Steve

-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: SCHMUNK@SPACVAX.RICE.EDU (Robert B. Schmunk, 1-713-527-4939)
Subject: an extra note on tournaments

Steve Bartlett mentions that modern competitions (a la SCA?) are
usually team events. GMs who decide to prepare a tournament for
their world might want to note that a "team event" did occur in
some medieval tournament. I'm hazy on the details, but I remember
reading that some tourneys featured a (not so) mock battle,
in which the various knights at a tournament would split into two
groups and have away at each other in some specified enclosed
area. Perhaps 20-30 fighters might be on each side, and a death
or three was not an uncommon result. Besides the usual adrenaline
rush, I believe that the victors got the usual spoils of battle;
ie., they held the losers' arms for ransom. I'm not about to
suggest any rules for attempting to handle such an event, but
GMs might enjoy describing it to their non-chivalric PCs.

rbs

-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jaakko Kankaanp{{ <JAC@kontu.utu.fi>
Subject:  Re: Tournaments

>
>I suspect that I didn't make clear what I saw as the entrance requirements
>
>Joust - participants must have the right to bear a coat of arms,
>effectively limiting the contest to the nobility, though I'd also allow
>the knights of Larani's fighting orders to compete under the arms of
>that fighting order. (effectively since knights and above of this order
>should be nobility, this will not cause problems)
>
>Other weapon combat - chivalric weapons - as above, though I'd also
>include those who carry weapons of this category through sponsorship of
>nobility, ie the military units etc. 

Oh, I see. Very good and well thought of.

>Other - wrestling, staff fighting, hollering (see the 100 bushels
>module!), etc - open to anyone.

Can anybody tell me what a hollering contest would be like? And how would you
determine the winner, if some of the PC's wanted to take part?

>Modern competitions are
>usually team events, though the participants also score individually,
>and points are awarded for striking the opponents shield. I haven't seen
>anyone fall at a competition as a result of a joust. I would imagine
>that historically things were a lot more aggresive, hence the higher
>chance of falling. The next tourny I run will have the new improved
>jousting lances, with crown shaped iron head!

I saw Geoff and Val Winship's (sp?) tournament show last summer, and they sure
did fall! But they were just playing, not competing, of course.

The original tournament of mediaeval Europe was indeed a mock battle, in which
the knights were divided in two teams which fought each other, took prisoners
for ransom etc. This was called a melee. As time passed and manners became
more refined, the individual joust with only two knights fighting at the same
time gained popularity at tournaments. These two were often combined; for
example, if the tournament lasted several days, there would be jousting during
the day and a grand melee each night. Later still, the method of scoring
became more civilized, and it was no longer necessary to unhorse your
opponent; you won by breaking a set number of lances against his shield.

In Harn, which is quite a civilized place compared to much of mediaeval
Europe, either the jousting & unhorsing or the jousting & breaking lances 
variety would be the most likely form of tourneying, I should think.

Jaakko
_____
Jaakko Kankaanpaa     !     Turku, Finland     !     jac@kontu.utu.fi
"I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition"

-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: advent@ukc.ac.uk
Subject:  Re-enactments


Following up on the comments about both medieval competitions, and their
modern equivalents. Robert Schmunk mentions a mass combat type event...

I also remember bits about 'mock' battles, though also somewhat
hazily... They were fairly epic affairs, lasting anything up to about a
day. The knights would form into opposing sides, often lead by a
champion, head off to opposing hills, and then charge each other. They
would fight until all of one 'team' was down. I'd back up the 'death or
three' being not uncommon!

I remember such events being detailed in Mallory's Morte d'Arthur, I'll
have a look this evening, though I have definate memories of such an
event, with Gawaine championing the kings 'team', and Lancelot the
queens.

Re-enactments

Strangely enough we don't have the SCA here in England (or at least I
haven't heard of them here. What we do have are a couple of other
organisations.

The Jousting Federation of Great Britain, is the lot I've seen in
action. They hold events every bank holiday, they used to be at Chilham
Castle (about 15 miles from me), but have unfortunately moved :-(
They deal almost exclusively in jousting and mounted competitions such as
the quintain, though also have some foot combat. They use armour varying
from chain to plate, variety of swords, jousting lance, knight shields,
mace, and occasionally quarterstaff to discipline peasants such as
minstrels. They also usually have people in period costume for the
'royal box', as well as a minstrel or two. I doubt if you could tie this
lot down to a specific time period, but I'd say they aim for about the
twelfth century.

There are apparantly other organisations abroad, since they go off to
compete abroad. There is also apparantly a world championship. I'd guess
that other competing countries would include France and Germany, though
I don't know... For the last few years the world champion has been
british. To show how safe the 'sport' is, he's apparantly broken
virtually every bone at some time or other! He's also about fifty...

The Sealed Knot. (I've never actually seen this lot)

Re-enact various battles from the English Civil War (16 century?) (my
history is not on form today!). They field two to three hundred people,
in various regiments, a few times a year, and reenact various battles.
The fighting is with muskets, pikes, rapiers etc, and usually on foot.
In their latest event (this easter), they had about 200 people, and two
injuries, a broken arm, and a concussion. I suspect if they hadn't used
blanks and blunt swords there might have been a few others.... (this was
held at Chilham Castle, mentioned above, but unfortunately I didn't hear
about it 'till after it had finished :-(

The numbers, and technology level, ie muskets/flintlocks etc (sorry, my
gun-lore isn't too good), make this a bit out for harn comparisons...

Grand National Archery Society (I'm a member of this lot)

The archery club for the UK, with clubs scattered throughout the
country. They cater mainly for modern archery, though do have a section
devoted to longbows. This section is for the real fanatics, since with
inferior bows, and no sights they shoot at similar targets, at equal or greater
distances than anyone else! (OK, I admit it, I want to get good enough to
join them!)

They use either target archery, similar idea to the archery competition
I detailed with the jousting article, but with 12 dozen arrows, and with
5 scoring bands (9,7,5,3,1) on a yard diameter target at 100 yards, or
clout archery, where a similar number of arrows are shot at a similar
target that is laid on the ground at 240 yards.


Can't think of any others that carry out things relevant to the harnic
chivalric competitions. Anyone else?


-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: tournaments
From: Paul Stratton (Sierra Geophysics, Inc.) <sgihbtn!paul@uunet.UU.NET>

To my fellow Harniacs,

Tournament styles in history were many and varied.  Check out the book
Tournaments.  I'm not sure who the authors are, but it was published in 1990.

Depending on when in history (~1100 to ~1350) and location tournaments took
many forms.  Everything from fighting in pairs with wooden swords (SCA 
tourney style) to large battles (SCA wars).

At several times there was literally a circuit of jousts one after another and
the landless knights went from place to place to earn prizes.  The church tried
to get this banned because of the hight death rates on the nobles
participating.

Another type of "tourney" would be where several knights would get together at
some bridge and defend it against all comers for say 30 days.  At one ducal
coronation in Germany there was a week of tourneys of all types.

The problems were that the contestants would get out of hand and the town the
tourney was held in would have a bad fire or immense damage would be done to
the town or the populace.  This led to large damage deposits and large groups
soldiers to insure order.

Any excuse to hold a party!

Paul Stratton

-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: advent@ukc.ac.uk
Subject:  Spellcaster Powers


The following comments are based mainly on the Savoryan convocation,
since that is the convocation of the Shek-Pvar player in my game, I
don't know how much this applies to other convocations, since I haven't
seen them in play... It also mainly applies to the two spells, Violet
Eye, and Wisdom of Usela, since these are the two main culprets I have
noticed. This is not a comment on my player with this character - Hi
Piers, I *know* you will read this - but rather on the way this part of
the game is set up.

Presumably the code of the Shek-Pvar, limiting their influence over the
normals of the world is there to stop the domination of others by the
mages, and I can see how this will tend to stabilise events as well. My
problem is with spells that effectively sidestep this issue, such as the
Savoryan information gathering spells. The mage is not using their power
to gain temporal power directly, but to gain information which will lead
to it (in the wrong hands).

Providing the mage asks the right questions, then they may find out
virtually anything. They are limited to how often they may ask questions
(1 per subject per day), but given a couple of weeks of spare time, that
isn't important. They only get yes/no answers to start with, but at
higher levels they get more info. They can also get info on anything
that is not specifically hidden. (and the implication is that since a
spell exists to hide information, it is not normally hidden)

While I can see good points in this, there are obvious problems, and
questions. To start with, why aren't all Priests of Save-Knor also
Savoryan Shek-Pvar? It would make the information gathering so much
easier, and would be fairly logical! With a game point of view, it
becomes more difficult to set challenging adventures when anything known
in advance can be used to get information easily about the adventure.
The Shek-Pvar is also likely to do things like ask where the nearest
magical item etc is, and and work outwards from that...

To limit things somewhat, I use the following guidelines, though degrees
of obscurity / hiding varies greatly depending on many things (including
probably the phase of the moon, and how I'm feeling!)

All 'secrets' or similar information associated with the Religions of
Harn, are hidden to some degree. (to a great degree with some things)

Any being that is capable of granting aide on the intervention table (ie
lesser demon upwards) will as a matter of course hide information about
themself. (and this will probably extend to their servants and
associated matters)

Most Shek-Pvar will conceal any information they can, including
information about themselves, their homes, and their belongings. After
all, knowledge is a form of power!

Things that are inately magical or powerful may also be so protected,
for example the earthmasters and their artifacts and ruins, the elder
powers that still remain on Keshtia (ie the Preadalyn (sp?), such as
Noron and the Riddlemaster of Anrist Point), and their offspring, such
as the sons of Noron, the offspring and wives of Sarajin etc.

Some 'normals' also are protected from this type of divination. I can
see the patron deities of a kingdom (ie Larani in Kaldor etc) protecting
the ruler, and associates, of that land, to maintain their positions
there.

Random information may also be protected, after all, who can explain the
methods of the Gods? For totally unexplicable reasons they may reagard
the information as requiring guarding...

Comments? any other proplems with other convocations to watch out for?

-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Klaus Ole Kristiansen <klaus@freja.diku.dk>
To: parson@pop.stat.purdue.edu
Status: R


We have found that spell much too powerfull, and changed it to this:
you can only get information that you could have got by normal means
by being somewhere else at another time. This is not taken too
stricktly, "what is the direction to the nearest town" is legetimate,
even though you could not find that out by being at one other spot.

If the point where the information "is" is within one league (or is
that 10, I am not sure) and within one day in the past, you have normal
ML. Each doubling of either means a -10 penalty to ML. 

Klaus Kristiansen

-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ejanderson@ucdavis.edu (Eric J. Anderson)
Subject: Other Convocations to worry about...

This is a comment in regards to the general problems with Harnic magic.
As a GM, you must be careful of the peleahn convocation because if given
free reign, a well-placed orb of zatra can neutralize just about any 
threat. (even a poorly-placed one could inflict alot of damage!)  There is
an article on Harnline which describes the damage done by explosions. It
is very very VERY slow, to resolve such attacks, and I generally roll 
several d10 and decide how hurt the NPC's are.  However if anyone in the blast
radius is a PC, then you must resort to location by location damage.  This
is why it is generally preferrable to limit most peleahn (explosion) spells
to ethereal fire, unless there is some fuel to light.  
	On another subject,  how do you (the GM's of Harnland) handle 
downtime development rolls.  Besides the 3 devo-rolls per month, do you use
the rules that harnmaster gives? In case you forgot, they are:
	1 devo roll/12 hrs instruction (instructor=your ML+20)
	1 devo roll/40 hrs employment.  
This standard leads to a ludicrous advancement in any craftsman's skills.
One pc went from being a weaponcraft's apprentice to being a 2 star weaponcrafter in the span of 4 months training.  
Any comments? 
-eric

-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ccmsean@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu (Sean Matheis)
Subject: from rec.games.frp

Here...

**********
Article 17415 of rec.games.frp:
Path: ucdavis!ucbvax!agate!bionet!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!watserv1!watdragon!watyew!jdnicoll
From: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
Subject: Shorkyne is Out
Message-ID: <1991Apr4.152352.29149@watdragon.waterloo.edu>
Date: 4 Apr 91 15:23:52 GMT
Sender: news@watdragon.waterloo.edu (News Owner)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Lines: 8


	Harnophiles may now rejoice. Shorkyne *is* out and *has*
been seen. I've even opened one.

	Nice packaging (freebie dragonskin cover) even if it *is* to wide
to fit in standard racks.

							James Nicoll




Sean
ccmsean@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu

-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Brian A. Dorion" <badorion@watyew.waterloo.edu>


Robert B. Schmunk,  writes
Subject: an extra note on tournaments

Steve Bartlett mentions that modern competitions (a la SCA?) are
usually team events. GMs who decide to prepare a tournament for
their world might want to note that a "team event" did occur in
some medieval tournament. I'm hazy on the details, but I remember
reading that some tourneys featured a (not so) mock battle,
in which the various knights at a tournament would split into two
groups and have away at each other in some specified enclosed
area. Perhaps 20-30 fighters might be on each side, and a death
or three was not an uncommon result. Besides the usual adrenaline
rush, I believe that the victors got the usual spoils of battle;
ie., they held the losers' arms for ransom. I'm not about to
suggest any rules for attempting to handle such an event, but
GMs might enjoy describing it to their non-chivalric PCs.

rbs

I will quote from _William Marshal Knight-Errant, Baron, and Regent of
England_ by Sidney Painter, published by University of Toronto Press, 
1988.  Pages 58-59.

"Thanks to his (William Marshal) enthusiasm for warlike sports, one can
obtain from the _History_ a fairly clear idea of the twelfth century
tournament.  Some two weeks before the appointed day messengers would
ride through the countryside to announce the time and place of the 
contest and sometimes at least the composition of the two parties.  In
the case of William's first tourney it was proclaimed that the knights
of Anjou, Maine, Poitou, and Brittany would content against those of
England, Normandy, and France.  The nature of the contests varied.   
There were carefully prearranged affairs where even the ransoms were
fixed by the rules, but these were scorned by true knights.  As a rule
a tournament was a regular pitched battle fought for amusement and 
gain.  One entered when one pleased with all the knights one could
muster.  The victors harried the defeated over the countryside in the
hope of capturing as many of them as possible.  In at least one combat
Philip of Flanders used serjeants as well as knights, and on another 
occasion three hundred infantry were used to cover the retreat of the 
vanquished.  Only the provision of refuges where the knights could arm
and repair injuries to their harness and the fact that prisoners could
give their parole instead of remaining in custody differentiated 
these combats from ordinary battles.  A great tournament might last
several days.  On the eve of the general engagement the young knights
had an opportunity to show their skill without the competition of the 
more experienced warriors.  After the combat the knights of both 
parties gathered together to discuss the events of the day and to   
settle the ransoms of those who had been captured.  Later in the   
evening the knights would visit one another in their lodgings.  
Apparently the ladies and their romancers had not yet had their way with
the tournament.  In the romances the ladies are enthusiastic spectators 
of the combats, present the prize to the best knight, and crown the
day with dancing and such feminine festivities.  Only in the case of
the tourney at Joigni does the _History_ mention the presence of
ladies.  Their complete conquest of this knightly sport was still in 
the future.  William and other pure lovers of battle were still in 
control of the cult of chivalry."

In my campaign I envision the tournament being in a period of change.
During his youth Torastra (the son of Haldan II of Kaldor) romped
from tournament to tournament.  All of the old style, bloody clashes
that raged from village to village in the countryside.  When his mother
Imelene came to the throne as Chelebin III, she endevored to change 
the fundamental nature of the tournament, to a more restrained form.
Probably the purest form of the "new" style of tournament is the Royal
Chelebin Tournament, which is a glorious festival of pagentry and 
noble chivalry.  At the RCT, the vast sprawling melee of old is 
tempered.  It is now restricted to a single field, with a refuge at
either end. All contestants must use blunted weapons or pull their blows.
All combatants must follow the rules of the "new" chivalric code; no
blows from behind, no striking unhelmeted foes, no striking horses, and
allowing disarmed opponents to rearm are among the most common of the 
"new" rules.  One of the biggest differences is the presence of 
marshals on the field, who act as judges deciding when someone has
been eliminated.  

Also new at the RCT is the presence of the Joust, a series of runs 
with a blunted lance where the goal is to unhorse your opponent.

e balance of popularity is slowly changing from the old style of 
tournament towards the new style.  However both styles of tournament
are still to be found.  Players of suitable rank may participate as
their desires indicate.

I feel this situation can lead to a wonderful blend of adventure      
possiblities for the GM and the players.  I must recomend the 
game Pendragon by Chaosium as being an excellent source of ideas for
a 'high chivalry' tournament.


Brian Dorion			Konrad Matthias Jager
Kitchener, Ontario		Bryniau Tywynnog, Ealdormere
Canada				MK
"Sanity is a sawed-off shotgun." -Frank Glup


-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 91 09:25:34 +0200
To: parson@pop.stat.purdue.edu
Status: R


I use the rules. Instructors are very expensive, no PC in my
campaign could afford hirering an instructor full time for
4 months.

Klaus Kristiansen

-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: advent@ukc.ac.uk
Subject:  training times


I agree that the training / self improvement times are somewhat wrong,
since a simple calculation shows that even if someone is working alone
then they race through the 'star-ratings', ie

 1 week = 10 days = 80 working hours = 2 improvement rolls
 1 year = 36 weeks = 72 rolls

so that any tradesman, who works full time on his trade, is going to be
fairly good after a few years. If he has a fairly good bonus then inside
three years, maybe even two with luck, he will have a skill over 100. If
he can also pick up training then this is even faster, but making the
training cost more doesn't really solve the problem, just delays it a
bit.

In a similar vein, I was a little worried that starting characters, if
they used their discretionary increases in the right place then they can
start off better than some of the masters of the guild. For example I
created a starting Jmovri Shek-Pvar, who with appropriate
specializations got his weaponcraft, specialize sword, second specialize
battlesword, to over 100! (luckily my players haven't spotted this yet,
they were too busy trying to get combat skills over 69 ;-) )

I feel a little wary about slowing down the aquisition of these
'peaceful skills', when over a similar period of adventuring a character
can get his combat skills as high. I would expect to give out more than
two sword improvement rolls to someone adventuring over the course of a
week. I like the balance of the game as it is, and if anything, would
want to push it further away from combat.

For a couple of suggestions...

1. Limit all starting skills to 69%, or lower ;-), not just combat

2. Make both taught and self taught learning dependant upon current
mastery level - how about master level / 2 hours for taught, and mastery
level * 2 hours for practice?

3. Only allow specialization at 70,90,110,(130?) to reduce the early
increase, after all, how many specializations are needed? (I believe
they are currently at 70,80,90etc )

Steve





-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: advent@ukc.ac.uk
Subject:  varied


A couple of things...

firstly thanks to the many people who have sent in details about
medieval jousting. I'm sure when I get to run the joust next year, it
will have a few new features (particular thanks to Brian Dorion, I like
the idea of the gradual takeover of the tournament by the ladies!).

re:problems with spells - I like Klaus' idea of limiting the Savoryan
divinations as to information that could be obtained by being
elsewhere/elsewhen, with -10ML for each multiple of 10 leagues/1 day.

I haven't had any problems with Peleahn spells, probably since there
hasn't been a Peleahn PC or NPC yet! Another spell that does need
watching is the Lyahvi 'laserbolt' spell. (sorry, can't remember the
actual name) It is in the Lyahvi tome, I can't remember if it is in the
basic spell list. It allows the caster to state where he hits, accurate
to within a few inches at any sane range. Aim for the eyes, if you miss
you get the face, and at high levels do enough fire damage to either
knock out, or kill, the victim - all for a 3rd(?) level spell!

I gave this spell to an NPC (luckily friendly with the party), and was
suprised at the effectiveness of the spell. When combined with the store
spell, this makes for a very powerful fast attack! (this is store from
the original rules, it may be different in the new magic stuff)

Oh, and a PS to my last article about training times - I know I said I
didn't want to push the balance in the direction of combat over other
skills, and then proposed methods that limited just other skills. I just
couldn't think of any to slow down combat gains as well... how about

4. Characters do not gain combat improvement rolls if the EML of their
opponent is more than 20 less than their own EML. Tune the '20' to
get the best result, the use of EML rather than ML allows for weaknesses
on either side at the time, outnumbering etc. Use the worst EML of the
character (attack or defence used) vs the best of the foe. Oh, and give
NO gains for anyone who uses the 'runequest weapon shuffle' to get some
improvement rolls ;-)

PS - I haven't tried out any of these ideas - I may when I start running
again in the coming term though!

Steve



-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 91 14:10:52 +0200
To: parson@pop.stat.purdue.edu
Status: R


(I am not sure the spell name is spelled right)

I have a Lyahvi shek pvar in my campaign with Beam and Store (old
style so far). It is powerful indeed! One problem is the combat
table. The largest target is the chest, you are almost sure to hit
person if you aim for the middle of the chest. The problem is that
the chest is also the best place to hit. You are not tempted to
risk a shot at the throat rather than playing safe and going for
the chest, because a chest hit is better. I suspect that the table
is made for natural fires. A burned chest is worse
because a larger area is burned.

Klaus Kristiansen

-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: advent@ukc.ac.uk
Subject:  Shamans etc


I've been thinking about shamans in harn... In particular the ability of
a few of them (mentioned in Kath or Taelda articles?) to adopt various
animal forms.

>From the 'arcane lore' section most tribal shamans are classified as
either psionicists, fakes, drug-induced visionaries or such like (I
can't remember if they included the likes of hedge-shek-pvar, and
followers of lesser gods, such as the Kubora with Kekamar)

Basically none of these really seem to fit the description of the shape
change bit. What I was thinking of was having some sort of ritual that
the shaman carries out that allows the enchanting of an animal pelt.
Attuning with the pelt (AURAx3 ?) would then allow a shift to the animal
form.

Some of the options would include...
either just useable by shaman / tribe / anybody
length of time in alternate form
either single / charged / permanent item
stat change in new form? change just physical, or also mental?
after effects?

I like the idea that shamans or at least those shamans that don't fall
into the categories listed above, have some kind of power different to
that of the shek-pvar. It would be based more on atunement with nature
than scholarly knowledge - "we do this because our forefathers did it,
because our totem animal lives this way, and because it works" rather than
"we do this because of this theory!" I guess I'm argueing a system for
nature or animal spirit worship, where the power comes from nature
rather than another being (priests) or the caster (shek-pvar)

Has anyone seen any other references to tribal shamans, or have any
comments on the above?

Steve


-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: SCHMUNK@SPACVAX.RICE.EDU (Robert B. Schmunk, 1-713-527-4939)
Subject: manor sizes


The other day I got to comparing a typical HarnWorld manor to a typical
Chivalry & Sorcery instant manor. Much to my surprise, there was a big
difference in land area. Typical HarnWorld manors run anywhere from 600
to 3000 acres, about 1-5 square miles. According to the tables, a C&S
interior manor is somewhere around 20 square miles and a frontier manor
is about 70 square miles. Now this wouldn't normally be such a big deal
except that I am not using the isle of Harn for my campaign (I'm just
raiding it for mucho excellent background material) and the C&S instant
manor system makes it pretty easy to roll up a barony or duchy in a hurry.

So, the question is: does anyone have any idea why the big difference?
I've pondered this a while and have only come up with one unsatisfactory
solution, so any input you could provide would help. Thanks,

rbs

-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: lee@sq.com (Liam Quin)
Subject: Manor sizes

Harn is based on 12th Century England and France.

C&S is based on North American fantasy.

20 square miles would be a completely unworkable farm in England or (as far as
I know) France, even today.  One and a half square miles is more plausible.

Consider that if there is no mechanisation to speak of, and no magic, an acre
is as much as one man can plough [plow :-)] in one day.

There are 640 acres in a square mile, so a village with fifty ploughmen (!)
would not be able to work it.  On the other hand, a pair of shire horses or a
tractor could do a 100 acre field in a day.  But on Harn there are Oxen, which
are not so good.  You still don't want to try the 100 acre field in a day even
with Oxen!

In mediaeval England some 80% of the people lived in the country[1].  They were
scattered in clumps, with the property that you could (and still can today)
walk easily from village to village.

With this sort of rural population density, you can't have a huge farm unless
you have lots of smaller vilalges in it, and then you have political problems,
since the feudal system can't handle that situation very well.  Each person
works on his own plot of land, and owes days to his liege lord, and that's
that [women didn't count, sorry].

So, if you are starting your own world, provide magical harvesting aids, have
a lower population density, and larger farms, as in North America, if that's
what you like.

Lee


-------
1.  Platt, Colin  The English Mediaevel Town

-- 
Liam R. E. Quin
lee@sq.com  SoftQuad Inc., Toronto

Take off your shoes and socks and relax.

-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: advent@ukc.ac.uk
Subject:  Farm Sizes


Just a short note to confirm Liam's recent comments on farm sizes...

Harn is the far more realistic figure as far as Medieval farms go. Up until
the last fifty years (mechanised farming etc), fields in England were fairly
small. A village might boast of a 'hundred acre field' but it would be
rare, and probably the site of the local fair or whatever. Lots of small
fields, and a total of about 1-3,000 acres is far more common.

Steve (the one from England!)

-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ccelric@deneb.ucdavis.edu (Eric J. Anderson)


			Harnic Shamans 
		      -================-

	Spiritual leaders of tribes, the shamans of Harn have various
talents and abilities, most of which are simple herblore ,high oratory,
and perhaps some psionic talents.  But there are a few exceptional shamans
who actully do have esoteric skill or items to enhance their shamanic 
rituals.  In particular, there are rumored to be shape changing shamans in
the Kath and the Taelda tribes.  Other tribes might well have a shapechanger
in the tribe.  The type of shapechanging used by most of these shamans is
not true shapechanging, rather it is through the use of specially prepared
pelts and furs that the shaman gains his/her ability.

The preparation of the pelt is an invocation of the IV or V circle (depending
on the size and abilities of the pelt created).  And the use of the pelt
would be an invocation of the III circle. Piety costs would vary from
religion to religion, but here is an example of a Yarili Jarlak Shaman's 
invocations and piety costs.


Jarlak's Mantle V/30
	Creation requires that an old white wolf be called to the Shaman,
then the wolf must willingly offer its life to the tribe , and then the
Shaman must cure the hide in a holy place with his/her own blood.  This 
ritual invocation takes roughly 10 days to perform, and usually requires 
several ordeal drugs like Tasparath, and typically involves more than
one shaman.

Jarlak's Shadow III/15
	This ritual invocation allows the Shaman to alter his/her form to
the form of the pelt created by Jarlak's Mantle. The transformation takes 
1 minute to complete, during which the Shaman is unaware of his/her 
surroundings.  For stats ,use the physical characteristics of the wolf who
originally owned the pelt. To keep the casters original mental stats, the
shaman must make a (MS:willx3/CS:willx5) or revert to mental state of the 
wolf for the duration of the transformation. The transformation lasts  
(MS:Ritual SI hours/CS:Ritual SI*3 hours) after which the shaman experiences 
a partial memory loss during the transformation, dependent on level of
success and ritual SI. (GM discretion)


Such a system could be based on lesser god or totem worship, which works well
within the frameworks of the religious system, or ancestor worship, which 
still  fits into the religious system. 

"Oh Great-great Grandfather, help me slay this white and red beast which 
invades my village.... urrrrch!!! yalp-" said Upposka, the Solori Shaman as 
a Knight skewered him to a tree.  (He must have made his Divine Intervention, 
as the knight was thrown from his horse and broke his neck.) :)

=================================cut here===================================
any comments?
-Eric Anderson

PS thank you for the ideas Steve, I will be using this real soon.

-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: advent@ukc.ac.uk
Subject:  Shamans


Thanks to Eric Anderson - I like that implementation of shamans (or at least of
those who follow various spirits/gods etc)

Since the party are wandering around in Kath/Taelda hunting grounds, and
have made things worse by building their new village close to a Taelda
holy site (see 100 bushels of rye), as well as having calously slain
several Kath who were in the process of running away from them, and one
who was trying to surrender, action is slowly but surely creeping up on the
party.....  ;-)

comments on the shaman article...

the shamanic abilities in this depend upon the ritual skill, which is
fine. A problem I forsee (if used as player rather than NPC) is that
ritual does not increase with practice, it must be learnt. The answer is
presumably that you learn from a  better shaman, but how does he get
better? In terms of conventional religions (Larani etc), the priest
would learn from a high priest or books, but the same 'where did the
high ritual item / person come from' exists. I'd probably claim that
self teaching would work, though there would definately be some chance
of getting it wrong!

(OK, so this isn't really a comment on the article ;-) The only real
comment on that is 'I like it!')

I also really liked the example of Divine Intervention! - the guy didn't
mention his own life ;-)

Steve


-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ccelric@cassatt.ucdavis.edu (Eric J. Anderson)
Subject: Shamans and ritual ml

In regards to a PC's ritual increasing, I have a player in my game who worships
Jarlak.  (actually his character does... :) ) If you dont remember, Jarlak is
the carrion lord of Sarajin.  He is a huge white wolf.  I thought that it 
would be acceptable for him to worship Jarlak. He was a Hodiri tribesman who
was cast out of his tribe by his brother, and went to Cherafir  and became an
animal trainer, training dogs and horses.  The character had about 6 months to
kill (he missed a few weeks) and he said he wanted to increase his Ritual
EML, perhaps learn a few invocations.  We thought about it and decided that 
His character would endure several ordeal drugs and ceremonies to gain some
idea of how to get closer to Jarlak, (ie increase Ritual ML)  He gained a
vision of a mantle of Jarlak being held by some strange creatures in Ivinia.
And to make an epic story short, He retrieved it and was granted an audience
with a divine pack of white wolves, and increased his ritual by SB. (i think)
Anyway, as you can imagine, not all religions followers gain knowledge of 
invocations from a book.

-eric (not parson) anderson


-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ccelric@cassatt.ucdavis.edu (Eric J. Anderson)
Subject: Shamans revisited

About the Shaman article I wrote earlier,  
The High level invocation, Mantle of Jarlak, is not really intended to be used
by a PC. (not yet at least)  It is more to be used by an old shaman who has
achieved a High level of empathy with Jarlak.  In this way the shaman creates
an artifact which may be used by those worthy of its power.  
I hope that made sense...
-eric

-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ccmsean@deneb.ucdavis.edu (Sean A. Matheis)
Subject: Info on magic tomes

Well, I called Columbia games to place and order, and got to ask
Tom a few questions.  Primarily, about the magic tomes.  According to Tom,
Jmorvi and Fyvria should be out by the end of next month.  Also, they do
plan on re-printing the Pilot's Almanac at some future date.

Just a bit of info



Sean
ccmsean@deneb.ucdavis.edu

-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: SCHMUNK@SPACVAX.RICE.EDU (Robert B. Schmunk, 1-713-527-4939)
Subject: Staff of Fanon (spoilers)

A few weeks ago, I was discussing Staff of Fanon with Steve Bartlett and
he asked me to let him know how it went when I got around to GMing the
module. I figure that some of the rest of you might be interested, so I'm
posting this to HarnList so that all of you can read it. Additionally,
I wanted to see how some of the other GMs handle some things I wasn't
sure about.

First off, despite my frequent postings here and on UseNet about Harn,
I haven't GMed HarnMaster all that much. The session a few nights ago
was only my third, and only my second adventure. The players had
initially rolled up "Joe average" PCs, but since there were only two
players this night, I let each take along a second character that was
rolled up between sessions. Both had decided to go for class and rolled
mages. Consequently, the PCs on this adventure were:
1) a pilot who's roaming around on land looking for adventure. He also
   has *very* low lockcraft skill.
2) a Peoni acolyte who's left the monastery under dubious circumstances. His
   most useful skills at the moment are psionic healing and sensitivity.
3) a Melchusian Sorceress (Sorcery being spells that affect another being's
   mind; Ordeal of Frida and Syncope of Shalore are examples).
4) a Melchusian Thaumaturge (Thaumaturgy being spells of civilization,
   particularly those that have to do with fire or working metal; it's
   essentially a combination of Jmorvi and Peleahn). He also has
   psionic Disembodiment.

Since Staff of Fanon is a low combat module, this mix of PCs didn't concern
me, and indeed, it wasn't much of a problem.

Both players have played FRPs before, one since the latest 70s, and both
considerably experienced. This had its downside as they frequently reacted
suspiciously to events around them, often slowing down the course of
adventure. Particularly interesting was their debate about the lifespan
of elves, and whether Panaga and Fanon were the same person, this despite
a very un-elflike, detailed description of Panaga. They also wasted a
great deal of time worrying whether the black tarry substance around the
secret door in the entry cave was a black jelly (or somesuch D&D creature)
oozing around the doorway.

The experience of the players did help in that they very quickly thought
of a way into Nevarna's tower *and* were equipped to carry out their
plan. You may recall that the tower was made of sandstone, as was the
box which contained the protective amulets and which was described as
being made of stone that could be chipped away (though not as easily as
talc). Immediately, the PCs reached into their packs and found two
hammers and five spikes. One PC of fairly high climbing ability
then proceeded to scale the tower, trailing 100' of rope behind him (the
party conveniently started the adventure with 150', just the right amount.
It would have made it more interesting if they'd had 25' less). I rated
this a hard climb (how would others have rated it; very hard?), and the PC
pulled it off; his only fall occurring when he was 20' feet up and not
causing great injury. The party followed up the rope, the rope was then
pulled up and dropped down the central shaft, and they descended to the
first level. After 58 minutes (gametime) of lockpicking, they got through
the gate and headed for the stairs.

They found just about everything except for the mousetrap and the treasure
chamber near the garden. They freed all of the statuefied *except* for the
wolf and the minor demon. Consequently, they do not yet know that they
must collect parts of the greater demon in order to defeat Panaga, nor
do they have the first few pieces.

Now, some things that came up during play about which I wanted to pose
some questions:
1) One PC made great use of the Disembodiment psionic skill. Since this
   allows the astral self to walk through walls, it seems like a great
   way to map out a "dungeon" before you actually set foot within. The
   description of an ethereal states that they are only able to exercise
   non-physical skills, so I was often vague about describing things to
   the PC who had gone ethereal, just stating that "you feel like you
   exited the rock and are now in open space" instead of giving him
   descriptions of a room's contents. Anyway, this skill could be
   heavily abused and I'm wondering if other Harn GMs have placed any
   limitations on its use. I think I may have to have an ethereal come
   along and possess his body while he's "out".
2) Just how much information do GMs require a PC to specify when he is
   attempting to cast Dispell? At low MLs, the PC must descibe what
   he thinks the spell is; I took this to mean the convocation and general
   (maybe 10 word) description of its effect. Are other GMs requiring
   more? Does the Complexity of the spell need to be specified?
3) In order to avoid fatigue penalties, the PCs almost always rested
   after employing a psionic skill or casting a spell. This being a low-
   combat adventure, they were able to get away with it, but it
   meant they were *very* low on food when they got done with the tower,
   having spent about four days within, game-time. Have other GMs
   also experienced such casting-and-immediate-resting behavior?
4) When a thief-type encounters a lock more complex than his lockcraft
   ability, at what point do you drop the 5% rule and declare it flat
   out impossible? After how many picking attempts do you state, "You're
   never going to figure it out"?
5) How much information are GMs giving out for *passive* use of psionic
   skills, particularly Sensitivity? I usually commented something to
   the effect "you feel something magical in the vicinity". Are other GMs
   specifying strength, direction, more?

One other thing, the Tome of the Shek Pvar has turned out to be quite handy.
The Critical Failure result table was particularly useful the other night.
The only section I had to ignore was the section on calculating research
target level; a PC wanted to instantly develop a spell but I didn't want
to stop for ten minutes to calculate RTL. Consequently, I reverted back
to the original rules for instant development.

rbs

-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: advent@ukc.ac.uk
Subject:  Staff of Fanon reply (spoilers)

In reply to Robert B. Schmunk's article on Staff of Fanon

> Since Staff of Fanon is a low combat module, this mix of PCs didn't concern
> me, and indeed, it wasn't much of a problem.

I'd agree with that - it is described as 'mid-level' I believe, but
that's only because the party will find 'dispel' and 'sensitivity' very
useful....

with respect to the climbing of the tower :
with the right equipment, I'd probably have made it hard as well, after
all the party *do* have to get into the tower. My group had the mage
instant develope a 'levitate' spell. Another solution I supose (and it
worked!)

> They found just about everything except for the mousetrap and the treasure
> chamber near the garden. They freed all of the statuefied *except* for the
> wolf and the minor demon. Consequently, they do not yet know that they
> must collect parts of the greater demon in order to defeat Panaga, nor
> do they have the first few pieces.

Strange, my group also missed these two locations, and only these two.
They freed all the statues. They are still having fun trying to decypher
what the demon tlold them! The wolf didn't last long (the party is quite
large at 7 players, and has a couple of dedicated warriors)

> Now, some things that came up during play about which I wanted to pose
> some questions:
> 1) One PC made great use of the Disembodiment psionic skill. Since this
>   ...[skill could be] heavily abused and I'm wondering if other Harn
>   GMs have placed any limitations on its use. I think I may have to
>   have an ethereal come along and possess his body while he's "out".

I haven't noticed this (but then I none of the players has
disembodiment!). I did however have problems with sensitivity in this
module though. Most of the doors are concealed by magic, and hence the
party had no problem finding their way around....

> 2) Just how much information do GMs require a PC to specify when he is
>    attempting to cast Dispell?

Once again I haven't had this problem. the Shek-Pvar can only usually
dispel his own magic (due to ML). In the adventure it was boosted high
enough so he could affect most things. I guess that for the intermediate
levels I'd want convocation at least, possibly also a guess at what the
spell does... (dispell from the initial rules, I don't have the new one)

> 3) In order to avoid fatigue penalties, the PCs almost always rested
>    after employing a psionic skill or casting a spell.

Mine do exactly the same. I like the idea that given time the after
effects of magic and psionics will go away, it is only at times of
stress that the stacking effects of fatigue start to have a major
effect.

> 4) When a thief-type encounters a lock more complex than his lockcraft
>    ability, at what point do you drop the 5% rule and declare it flat
>    out impossible? After how many picking attempts do you state, "You're
>    never going to figure it out"?

I only had (he was caught by the authorities while pick-pocketing in
Olokand market) one character with 'pick locks'. I always gave him a 5%
chance, but said that once he critically failed a roll, then that lock
was impossible for him until he learnt some more about locks.

> 5) How much information are GMs giving out for *passive* use of psionic
>   skills, particularly Sensitivity? I usually commented something to
>   the effect "you feel something magical in the vicinity". Are other GMs
>   specifying strength, direction, more?

It varies, depending on the circumstances. One character (who has no
other psionics) suffers headaches while in close proximity to magic (he
had migraines in this tower!) The intensity of the headache is on a
slight / some / lots scale. The other (a Shek-Pvar) gets told their is
magic in close proximity. Any further information requires an active use
of the skill.

I also have a character with premonition - in dangerous situations he
gets told he has 'shivers down the spine', if he doesn't react
immediately then tough! A third character has 'medium', but they haven't
yet met an ethereal.

> One other thing, the Tome of the Shek Pvar has turned out to be quite handy.

Grr! It hasn't got to this corner of the world yet!

Steve

-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: lrg@crud.cray.com (Lee Gordon)
Subject: Re: Staff of Fanon questions/comments
Status: R

> Now, some things that came up during play about which I wanted to pose
> some questions:

     First of all, I'm not a GM, nor do I play one on TV...  But, I do have
a few thoughts on some questions Robert brought up.

> 1) One PC made great use of the Disembodiment psionic skill. Since this
>    allows the astral self to walk through walls, it seems like a great
>    way to map out a "dungeon" before you actually set foot within. The
>    description of an ethereal states that they are only able to exercise
>    non-physical skills, so I was often vague about describing things to
>    the PC who had gone ethereal, just stating that "you feel like you
>    exited the rock and are now in open space" instead of giving him
>    descriptions of a room's contents. Anyway, this skill could be
>    heavily abused and I'm wondering if other Harn GMs have placed any
>    limitations on its use. I think I may have to have an ethereal come
>    along and possess his body while he's "out".

     This is what our GM does.  We usually can't do any mapping via 
disembodiment, because most dungeons don't have light sources and the
ethereal character can't see anything.  We get the same general responses
too.  "You feel like you've left the wall".  Our GM will periodically make
rolls to see if a nearby spirit happens to detect the open vessel (PC's
body) and if so, the PC generally gets possessed if he isn't carefull.
It's fun watching the player try to re-possess his own body.  After that
happens once, he's usually done with disembodiment for awhile.


> 2) Just how much information do GMs require a PC to specify when he is
>    attempting to cast Dispell? At low MLs, the PC must descibe what
>    he thinks the spell is; I took this to mean the convocation and general
>    (maybe 10 word) description of its effect. Are other GMs requiring
>    more? Does the Complexity of the spell need to be specified?

     No clue.

> 3) In order to avoid fatigue penalties, the PCs almost always rested
>    after employing a psionic skill or casting a spell. This being a low-
>    combat adventure, they were able to get away with it, but it
>    meant they were *very* low on food when they got done with the tower,
>    having spent about four days within, game-time. Have other GMs
>    also experienced such casting-and-immediate-resting behavior?

     We usually rest whenever a spell has been cast.  Most spells will
require only a few minutes rest so this shouldn't be a big deal.  Our mage
also has a staff with spells stored into it, which saves time as well.
Our GM runs a very low magic campaign (maybe even low for Harn), and as
a result, we don't spend too much time casting spells or doing psionics.
Maybe this is why resting after every use isn't a big deal either.  Also,
I find that more time is spent resting and binding wounds after combat
than is spent resting from spell usage.  You can easily spend a game-time
hour putting compresses on bruises and stitching cuts.


> 4) When a thief-type encounters a lock more complex than his lockcraft
>    ability, at what point do you drop the 5% rule and declare it flat
>    out impossible? After how many picking attempts do you state, "You're
>    never going to figure it out"?

     Our GM doesn't apply the 5% rule to locks, so if you're zeroed out,
you have no chance.  He will usually tell us right away if it looks more
complex than we can handle.

> 5) How much information are GMs giving out for *passive* use of psionic
>    skills, particularly Sensitivity? I usually commented something to
>    the effect "you feel something magical in the vicinity". Are other GMs
>    specifying strength, direction, more?

     Our GM gives us vague magical comments, and then if we want to
investigate things more actively, it is up to us.  He also changed the
usage of Sensitivity.  All mages are trained in Sensitivity when they
are learning their craft.  I think he also removed it as a percentage skill,
and goes by game balance as to how much or how little info to reveal.


     I hope these comments are helpful.


	-Lee

-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: advent@ukc.ac.uk


On rec.games.frp today I noticed someone mentioning the spring '91
Harn Magasine from Colombia (sorry, can't remember its name). Has anyone
else seen this yet? If so how long has it been out? (I've subscribed to
this service, but I expect it will take a couple of weeks or so to arrive
at best!)

Steve (in England - with long postal delays to Canada)



-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: SCHMUNK@SPACVAX.RICE.EDU (Robert B. Schmunk, 1-713-527-4939)
Subject: fanon, again

Thanks for the comments on my earlier posting re: Staff of Fanon.
>From what I hear, it sounds like the only things I GMed "wrong"
were things I intentioanlly did wrong. In particular, I let the
PC casting Dispell succeed more often than he should have, but
since they were in Yashain, I figured I had an excuse.

In regards to lockpicking, here's a suggestion for adjudicating
it, combining what I did with what Steve Bartlett suggests:
1) Even if the lock is more complex than the PC's Lockcraft skill
   would allo him to pick, give him the 5% chance to begin with.
2) Even if he fails, the PC may continue to pick the lock until
   he achieves CF. When CF occurs, GM may choose between:
   a) informing PC that this lock is obviously too difficult
      and he needs to practice some more before trying again.
   b) the PC either breaks a pick or the lock (GMs willing to
      get into it can do Quality checks). Either way, the lock
      is jammed.
   c) both a and b.

BTW, players in my campaign inform me that they will probably
be returning to Nevarna's Tower, since they know that there are
things they missed. Now it's up to me to find a really good way
to scare them. Perhaps Panaga returned during the interim and
has set some boobytraps; ahh, the possibilities are endless.

rbs


-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Thanks for subscribing...
From: Axel Schudak <Axel.Schudak@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de>

Thanks for your mail.
Please send me information the recent "talking". Since I'm very interested
in all Harn related matters, I may find some usefull comments.
*[Ed. note:  The above is directed at me, and I'm taking care of it.]*

I also want to ask all out there how they are handling eye-damage in the
combat system.

Axel Schudak
Oldenburg, Germany



-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: advent@ukc.ac.uk
Subject:  Eye Damage


Firstly I'd like to welcome Axel Schudak to the mailing list, and then to
go on to answer his question: "How do you handle eye damage"

I've had this problem a couple of times in Harn, the first was with a
Vlasta (those wonderful little creatures ;-) ), that managed to get a CS
verses the character's CF counterstrike. It was a particularily messy
wound, bleeding I seem to remember, and the player also went
unconscious. The following roll on the treatment table generated a Major
Impairment. I decided that the eye must have been destroyed. I reduced
eyesight to 2/3 of what it was. The character actually died from the
infection of that wound, so he didn't get to recalculate his new SB
and ML values.

The second time the party was being ambushed by some Taelda tribesman.
One of the archers (shortbow) managed a MS vs the character's MF dodge.
He then proceeded to roll 'eye' location. (I have players roll their own
hit locations - it seems more fun!) This time it only ended up as a
minor wound I believe, but the character still ended up unconscious.
When it got round to making the treatment roll, he ended up with a H5,
so I decided that nothing particularily serious could have happened, and
the wound was to the area around the eye, unaffecting eyesight.

As I run it, if the treatment table generates an H result, nothing serious
has happened. If it gives a minor impairment, then I will take a point
off a relevant stat, in this case 'eyesight' and put it down to
something like restricted eye movement. If its a major impairment, then
in this case it would be a lost eye, and I'd reduce the appropriate stat
to 2/3 of what it was. (Obviously a second lost eye wounld take it to 0)

I would then carry on as the rule suggest, ie recalculate appropriate
SBs, and reduce all affected MLs by 5xthe SB change.

One thing I had considered was reducing comeliness with impairments, or
just slowly with wounds because of scarring, but my group seem to use
psionic healing until the wounds reach EE, and I don't think a wound has
lasted more than 4 days!

Steve


-HML-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: lee@sq.com (Liam Quin)
Subject: eye damage

If your eye is hurt, you stop fighting (or whatever you were doing).
If it is hurt badly you scream and possibly clutch at it.

You don't carry on fighting.  You can't.
Even if you have one good eye.

If I was being kind and the character made the indicated shock roll,
I might let him (her) run away.

Lee
lee@sq.com  Liam Quin